Orange marches belfast

For those who don’t see the negative attitudes towards the diaspora and particularly their children, I refer you to the commonly used term “plastic paddies” which I’ve heard all over Ireland to refer to these people. These are the same kids who have returned year on year to spend school holidays with granny and grandad and might have two Irish parents, yet are “the English” (despite not having a UK passport in many cases). The same when they support Ireland at Twickenham. Oh the “banter”.

I agree wholeheartedly about the education part. I believe colonialism is taught in UK curriculum now which is helpful. There’s so much damage to unpick and there are many countries to discuss.

@Evanna13

I do call it out when it’s blatant. But again it’s not my place as an English person who doesn’t have skin in the game and doesn’t have the history with this friendship group to be the one to decide how he manages these relationships. I just usually speak to him when they aren’t there. But it’s frustrating how passive he sometimes is about it.

Sorry my reply was meant for @Thepeopleversuswork . Apologies!

@Evanna13 . Must be very annoying for your partner to be the butt of paddy jokes. However the potato blight, 1845 - 51 was not confined to any one part of Ireland. It did not respect political borders which had yet to exist.

They should be cut to July only at the very least. Paddy's Day is one day and as already stated, is inclusive to all. Having them go on from March - July is ridiculous and infuriating to those caught up in the disruption.

This.

I'm 67 and worked in Belfast from the age of 16.

Many many bombs went off, every day sometimes. A furniture shop 100 yards away had a baby blown from his pram. I was made to lie on the ground while three IRA men pointed guns at myself and my colleagues, planted a bomb and told us we had 10 minutes to get out. Other colleagues were working in the top of the building, no mobile phones, switchboard off; we had to throw stones up to break their windows to tell them to get out or they'd have been killed.

I tell this story for a reason.

we had the GFA and my four children dont live like that, Belfast is an amazing place, more diverse and i work in a nursing home with folk from all over the world, and encompasses a LOT of religions

But the troubles are recent, it takes time for people to move on, this isn't Disneyland for tourists but a community moving slowly forward.

FWIW I agree that the marches should be phased out, however its very very niave to think that just cutting them out is the way forward. We actually live here, and for me the progression so far is fantastic, maybe moving too slowly but from what I lived through its fucking fantastic, and I can live with that.

It is up to you to call it out. They cannot be good and kind people making jokes about the Irish famine.

Ridiculous post. Most Irish I know are incredibly proud of the diaspora.
Despise the diaspora and laughing at them because they had to leave?????
Why would you say this? It's bizarre and absoutley not the case.
I know some people think it's humorous that 3rd generation Irish Americans etc call themselves Irish but there is no way they despise them!! I imagine that attitude is more common with people who have no understanding of Irish history and emigration.

@CelesteCunningham

Paddy", famine jokes, potato jokes and the like are just racist and I wouldn't be shy in calling it out if I met it in the workplace.

I completely agree and I am always pointing out to my partner how unacceptable it is (not to mention ethnically and historically inaccurate) when his friends make jokes like this and saying they should educate themselves.

But for whatever reason he doesn’t want to confront it (I think on the grounfs that they are otherwise good and kind people), and it’s not up to me to tell him how to manage this.

Near me, it could be seen as goading/contentious to wear something like that during an Orange parade. I avoid them like the plague, go out early if I need shopping etc or the day before…

Yeah I'm the kind of Irish those "jokes" refer to, and I love a bit of banter as most Irish do IME. But "Paddy", famine jokes, potato jokes and the like are just racist and I wouldn't be shy in calling it out if I met it in the workplace.

@Evanna13

I know, that’s why I put it in quotes.

It's not banter, it's racist

The marches have been cut down and they're heavily regulated and (where necessary) policed.

I'm from Dublin, so feel very uncomfortable around them when I encounter one, but I'm not sure what more could realistically be done without causing more trouble.

So we all have to live in a prehistoric era just to suit these dinosaurs? At least the marches need to be cut down. The disruption they cause is unbelievable. Absolutely wouldn't mind if it was just on the 12 th July , but having it go on for months at a time every year is too much.
Although I think eventually it will die a death as the younger generation isn't hate fuelled like the current one and past ones.

@DotDashDot24

Its really embarrassing how bigoted and poorly educated the English are about alll communities in Ireland. The stereotypes, the half truths and assumptions. English people taking cartoonish and two dimensional positions about what they think the politics of Ireland is about.

It’s the legacy of colonialism and people falling to look directly at what happened and ask themselves the difficult questions. And poor and biased education.

Maybe it isn’t surprising but it’s high time people educated themselves on this. Hearing English people talk about Ireland makes me cringe, and I’m English.

100%.

Shtaaap! I spat out my tea. 😂

What a bizarre post. Who is ‘ridiculing and despising’ the Irish diaspora? Who thinks emigration is funny? Why would their ‘Irish blood’ have anything to do with the success’ of emigrants?

Op made a comment to the effect of 'why don't they ban these marches?'.

Banning Orange Order marches would undoubtedly spark an immediate return to violence and death in Northern Ireland.

Not sure who she thinks the 'they' are who would do the banning - politicians I suppose she might mean. How exactly would she propose to approach cross party support on that one? I doubt she has a clue but suggests it with an 'it's so obvious and easy, why hasn't someone done this' air.

So, as I said, shocking level of naivety and crassness.

was taught almost nothing about the history or Ireland at school (it may have changed since I left, the Troubles were still going on when I was at school).

That confirms my strong suspicions lol.

It's a missed opportunity to present to showcase the Protestant tradition in Ireland I think. Why can't it just be a fun day out for everyone?

There is actually an Orange parade in the Republic - in County Donegal. All very peaceful , followed by a picnic on the beach. So it can be done. A lot of people from both communities go on hols to avoid the 12th July.

When I lived in England;

I had people assume I was an Irish nationalist, and anti "British"
I had people say "(my name), that's not a very Irish name!!",
I had people refer to Irish travellers and then "sorry, no offence" to myself and another NI - ish colleague,
I had people explain GCSEs and A Levels to me,
I had people say "I don't know what the law in Ireland is like but here ....".
I had a manager say "typical stroppy Irish" to me, when he misunderstood something (totally neutral) I'd said.
I have absolutely no idea what he thought I said, he seemed to have massive difficulty understanding my (mild for NI) accent and referred to that "that funny accent of yours, it's a bit like a Scottish accent".

Some of these people are supposedly highly educated professionals.

I agree that almost all English people, and pretty much all Americans for that matter, instantly believe that you are "Irish" and Irish nationalist. Ulster Scots, Northern Irish/Irish Protestants, Unionists .... Don't exist in their minds. They neither know nor care about Irish/Northern Irish history, but feel entitled to mouth off about the culture here.

But that individual just sounds like an ignorant arse @DotDashDot24 rather than representing the entire people or Irish/NI extraction! Ignorant people exist everywhere.

I heard an interesting podcast about the Irish “tribes” around the world and the point being that a 1st generation Irish person from North London will have had a different upbringing to a 1st gen Irish person from New York or even UK Birmingham, and I believe that too.

We are also the only country that seems to ridicule and despise the diaspora and especially their children. We exported our young for decades even through the 1900s and it’s continuing today with the flight to Australia. There are many types of Irish diaspora with different experiences. Instead of embracing the part our Irish blood played in their success, we laugh at them and their descendents for having to leave. It’s extraordinary.

There is also, in my experience, a lack of knowledge of the history of Ireland and NI. I got the impression it's not touched on at school (?)

This is definitely correct. I am English but my partner is from NI. The level of ignorance his friends (who are good and intelligent people by and large) make about him is staggering and actually makes me angry.

He’s a Northern Irish Protestant and therefore his family would have identified as British (though he has lived here a long time and doesn’t care). But his friends will call him “Paddy” and make references which are obviously about people from the Republic (potato famine jokes etc). It’s not meant to be bullying or unkind it’s “banter” (I know I know) but the lack of knowledge demonstrated about the history of Ireland and the role played by the English in it is actually embarrassing to me.

I was taught almost nothing about the history or Ireland at school (it may have changed since I left, the Troubles were still going on when I was at school). I learned about it a bit at university as part of my degree and I have since read up on it but as an English person you have to educate yourself on it. The lack of awareness is a real problem.