Orange marches belfast

m.sundayworld.com/news/world-news/liverpool-fc-probes-complaint-over-loyalist-flute-band-playing-sectarian-anthem-at-anfield/a1588509338.html

What about this then 🤷‍♀️

Not naive in the slightest, just open minded and don’t have an issue with people flying the flag that they identify with. They have every right to do so in a divided country. Flags in themselves are not sectarian - intimidating murals, posters, graffiti and bonfires burning offensive symbols are a very different story.

I cannot believe you are that naive. Yes, I am sure you know why.

Ah come on. Nobody has any issues with sandwiches, marquees or bouncy castles.

There's more to it. You know there is.

The aftermath we saw in a nearby town with a very well attended march last year was mainly people wandering the streets drunk with beers in hand, staggering into the road and yelling. DP (not from here) had no prior knowledge of the Orange walk and was quite taken aback, he now avoids any areas they're marching in like the plague on the day! Personally, I don't feel especially safe in the vicinity of them and so keep my distance too.
We all have our opinions of them, but I wouldn't call all Orange walks a family friendly event, I've seen and heard of too many people being hurt and verbally abused during them. Perhaps some aren't like that, I can only speak from personal experience.
I think flags can be used to make a point, but they don't bother me.

This thread was about Orange parades which in my opinion should not be allowed to continue. Nor bonfires . Nor kerbside paintings. Flags are very much making a point of establishing a territory and making it unwelcoming for people who don't identify with that segment .

Personally I dislike them Unionist or Republican. If NI is to move forward these practices have to be discontinued.

The very fact that some posters feel that they are merely celebrating or just decorations shows the mindset unable to see how it is perceived by outsiders .
I know it a very complex issue and people have extremely strong opinions . But not acknowledging that others do not agree with your viewpoint and perceive things differently speaks to the intrangence of both sides to compromise.

Flags are not blatant sectarianism. Would you walk around central London getting offended by the union jacks everywhere? I think not. I come from an extremely mixed background and area - I don’t have an issue with people celebrating their identity, whether that be nationalist or unionist. Why is it such a problem for you?

I live here. I was escorting US visitors. In the US and NI Tourist Board it is promoted heavily. Bit of a shock then to come across this blatant sectarianism even for me who is very much aware of the issues. There is no place in modern society for these outmoded practices like Orange Order parades , bonfires or flag waving . Or Republican murals .They are inflammatory and to pretend otherwise is being disingenuous.

When I was lecturing at an English university in Irish literature between 2012 and 2019

@Divilabit Were you lecturing at the university between 2012 and 2019, or were you lecturing on Irish literature written between 2012 and 2019?

You're right @fungipie

Sick

Just rabble rousing

Yeah, the Orangemen commemorating the Battle of the Boyne on the 12th do such a great job of rabble rousing that everyone eats sandwiches in marquees while the kids go on the bouncy castles afterward. A real.crazed mob frothing at the mouth.

Exactly - traditions do not deserve to survive. Just rabble rousing and hatred, provocation. Sick.

I've already posted re the apparent lack of inclusion of reference to NI and Ireland in English schools' history ... And had varied responses from posters who attended English schools.

Anyway, your post makes it seem that they are aware of NI as a country, and that it is not the same as Ireland. The poster I responded to suggested that most of the world knows no difference between Ireland/Irish and Northern Ireland (and whatever people choose to identify themselves as in NI) and are apparently unaware it exists. (Therefore they don't know why there would be any British flags etc.).

my students dudnt know what the troubles were, and their associations with NI were Game of Thrones.

Young people are not exactly renowned for their knowledge of subjects outside their interest and experience (unless it's a pet subject for them). More so than ever, now that they have such a vast choice of entertainment at their fingertips online.

Thank you, Boatonalake and CelesteCunningham for correcting the would-be corrector. Not your drama to get tangled up in but appreciated. As someone said, say no more.

When I was lecturing at an English university in Irish literature between 2012 and 2019, my students dudnt know what the troubles were, and their associations with NI were Game of Thrones.

I've been in London and seen Regent Street absolutely covered in Union jacks. It's hard to escape the stars and stripes in the US.

If thoroughly British or American places feel the need to plaster their flags everywhere, why wouldn't people in a country where their very nationality is contested?

I don't like it, and frankly it's changed how I feel about flags and the like in general, but I understand it.

Indeed, supposed to be beyond all that?

I'm actually logging off for a while as I'm a very middle of the road poster where this is all concerned, three out of four of my children are married, Catholic/Protestant marriages and loved dearly.

Some of the statements I've been reading on here is staggering.

I mean beyond all that? Do some people expect this country to be Shangri-la after killing each other for years?

It would be funny if it wasn't so idiotically niave (at best!).

in a NI that is supposed to be beyond all that.

What a ridiculously naive and unrealistic statement. In fact naivety is probably being too kind.

Genuine question - If you don’t want to witness the realities of a post conflict society then why visit? Bushmills is a regular town that simply happens to have a whiskey distillery, not Disneyworld.

We were out eating in a restaurant and got talking to American visitors last year who were delighted to have filmed a band in carrickfergus.

Anytime I see parades and festivals in other countries, like the summer festivals in Japan; or a time I saw Morris (so) dancers practising in England; I think it's so unfortunate that our parades - with all the history, the banners, the effort at learning instruments and tunes, the practising for months, the traditional songs, the uniforms (which a delightful poster upthread was derogatory towards ...."they're polyester, knuckle draggers in polyester", yeah, most clothes are polyester and most of these people are working class, and they're worn a few times a year so why exactly would they be merino wool & silk? You've definitely got the right focus here), the family & community element etc ......are mired in the issues that they are.

I was surprised to see a tourist destination which it actively encourages is so blatantly sectarian. Not a pleasant look for impartial visitors . It is intimidating and outmoded. Who do you think Bushmills whiskey is marketed at ? And don't like it don't come attitude is very narrow minded in a NI that is supposed to be beyond all that.
And for what it is worth I would have felt equally uncomfortable if it was covered in Republican symbols.

I just read a bit about the British Israelites and, surprise surprise, the beliefs are actually something adopted by the Mormon church.

Lol, that's an entirely new one on me. I had to Google it.

Likewise the British Israelites.

It's all sounding a bit book of Mormon-ish.

I think what people are surprised at is having such a display of Britishness in a place most of the world thinks is Irish! In my experience abroad we are considered Irish no matter where in the Island of Ireland you reside.

I'm not sure why most of the world would think Northern Ireland is "Irish" given its been on news reports for decades due to terrorism.

I went to to West Africa after uni and an acquaintance's host family Dad knew that Northern Ireland exists and what was happening there. He was straight onto the subject as soon as he asked where I was from and realised I wasn't English like her.

If some people in the rest of the world are living under a rock or are ridiculously ignorant; that's not really anyone's problem but their own.

The whole run up can be a pain, but watching the programme last year on the Twelfth, it was obvious that there were squillions of tourists there from all over the world.

We were out eating in a restaurant and got talking to American visitors last year who were delighted to have filmed a band in carrickfergus.

The Hibernian parades are popular also.

Both 'sides' culture is a lot more complicated than hatred, and actually too complicated for me😁

As I posted before, the difference here is unbelievable, its certainly far from perfect, but it's coming from a place of huge conflict, so to expect it to turn itself into 'The Quiet Man' from a place of tearing lumps out of each other for generations, in a short time is a tad simplistic.