To think a declining birth rate is a good (and inevitable) thing

Hopefully when we all get old there’ll be an AI machine to wipe out bums for us

No one is telling anyone to become a “breeding machine”.
People can live their lives, but they’re also part of the society, where we all depend on each other to a certain extent.
Nothing wrong with realising that big societal changes like a declining birth rate will have consequences.

Agree, yet these threads pop up every month or two, and it’s the same comments again and again: “But our planet is overpopulated!, “Surely a declining birth rate is great?” and so on.
No matter how often people explain why a declining birth rate is worrying and what negative consequences it would have.

Couldn’t agree more.

I think lifestyle standards are so different now.

MIL is 1 of 8 kids!! They never had family holidays except maybe a night in an aunty’s caravan, because they couldn’t afford it. People now stave off having lots of kids so they can give them the materially nicer things in life. I don’t think that’s actually a bad thing. MIL says she loved being part of a big family but she was one of the youngest and didn’t experience what the elder ones did which was a lot of childcare before they hit their teens.

It's also less common to live near extended family these days. I don't have children, but if I did I wouldn't be able to use my or DH's parents for childcare because they all live too far away.

Also - the age at which people have children is relevant. 50 years ago, it was fairly normal to have you first children in your early 20s. Which meant a grandmother (who back then often didn't need to work full time to live) might be age 50-60 when childcare was needed, and would have the energy and stamina to provide that care.

Nowadays the average age of a first time mum is 30.9yrs. So a grandmother (who is also more likely to need to work more hours these days), is both older and more likely to have their time and energy taken up by work, so they are less likely to have the energy to provide care for small children.

(I've referred to grandmothers because somehow it almost always is the grandmothers who actually provide the childcare support.)

There are lots of factors at play, and I don't think calling boomers selfish is the answer.

I do think there is less family investment in the younger generations when it comes to sharing resources.

I think we can look more easily at the atomisation of wider families and the increasing retirement age of women, rather than point the finger at the boomers as an inherently selfish generation.

Blimey.

I don't necessarily think a declining birth rate is a good thing. Family planning on the other hand IS a good thing.

Absolutely.

I would also add this the younger half of the baby-boomer generation have, generally speaking, invested much less time in helping raise their grandchildren and invest in the younger generation. They are the retirement cruise generation, known for self-indulgence. A million threads I’ve read on MN over the years have taught me that this has been noted and resented by the offspring of these boomers and they can expect less care from family than previous generations have counted on, as a result. It frequently gets mentioned on here how other cultures do a lot of the care for the elderly themselves within individual families, but rarely is it mentioned that those being cared for never stopped rolling their sleeves up and doing the caring themselves until they were no longer able to do so. Most of my social circle rarely see their parents as they are always busy with their social lives, hobbies, cruises and holiday homes abroad. My grandmother was a second mother to me and was cared for faithfully until her end by a good number of doting and grateful family members. My children have a good relationship with my mother (father deceased) but it’s quite distant and polite compared to the intimate warmth I had with my granny. I’ve had to manage without help because she’s mostly not been around, she’s always busy, and while that is ok - I just don’t know if I feel that leveI of devotion to her care when she’s older. And I’m sure my children won’t as the bond isn’t there. So it is concerning for this next batch of elderly if we have neither the workforce, the nhs services or the family willing to roll their sleeves up.

<Shakes hands>

Fair enough.

Im sorry for whatever you’re going through - and I think it’s a good idea to avoid certain topics. I certainly have learnt to for things that are close to home. I can’t always post rationally and we all makes mistakes

I'll call a truce; I agree that I'm an awful person who makes awful accusations, and you agree that you're correct. Okay? Okay. I'll try to avoid certain topics in the AIBU? forums from now on.

So you can be angry at me for accidentally misspeaking through a moment of anger and you can ignore me addressing it to show you that I noticed, but I'm not allowed to have any sort of feelings or emotion? Is that how this forum works?

I didn’t say I did. It’s an opinion on a thread asking for opinions.

Ate you this melodramatic IRL?

The world is overpopulated, yes. I agree. But you categorically do not have the right to tell people how many kids they should have to mitigate what you believe to be a problem.

It is not a contradictory opinion to say a middle ground is ideal rather than two ends of either extreme.

But if you personally were allowed to dictate to them what you'd rather they do, you'd prefer it they stopped at two and had no more.

The world is overpopulated so I think it’s entirely reasonable to stop at 2 kids. No idea where you get the idea I want to ‘dictate’ to anyone. I shared an opinion on a thread asking opinions.

I already explained how I made a mistake in conveying something you said and you do care because you're still fizzing mad about it. I will not apologise to you, I repeat, I WILL NOT apologise to you for you getting angry at the way I interpreted a very clear post.

oh no, I’m gonna go cry into my pillow.

If you don’t wanna apologise because you projected your anger onto a poster whose post you didn’t read properly (and then made an AWFUL inaccurate accusation) then I won’t lose any sleep, I will instead be happy that I’m not the kind of person who does weird shit like rather than getting help for my irrational anger.

Absolutely pathetic TBH to twist someone’s words like you have. How embarrassing

I could’ve written this myself! I probably could technically afford another child but it would be to the detriment of my DD. We live in a small house in a nice area and I have money to pay for her sports and tutor. I often think ‘thank god I’ve only got one’ when I see the price of childcare costs, housing and life in general

As explained here in a satirical movie two decades ago:

I think a problem is that the people least able/willing to be good and responsible parents will continue to have multiple children despite a generally declining birth rate.
By this I mean situations where children grow up pretty much feral left to their own devices leading to a life at risk of crime, abuse, addiction and very bad choices.
I worry both for these individuals but also for society in general as regards balance of functioning adults vs pretty much destructive/self destructive adults.
Children from such inadequate parents can of course change and lead better lives but in many cases won’t unless help is available from the state or other sources.
I had a very traumatic childhood myself with zero support but was saved by the fact that my first seven years had been nurturing and safe and also because I was lucky enough to find academic work easy so climbed my way out of the horror of the rest of my life. Otherwise I think I could have easily taken a very different path.

They are. There is such a thing as secondary infertility, a couple might already have two kids and want a third and perhaps a fourth. Maybe they want to have as many kids as possible because they want to have a big brood. But if you personally were allowed to dictate to them what you'd rather they do, you'd prefer it they stopped at two and had no more.

I already explained how I made a mistake in conveying something you said and you do care because you're still fizzing mad about it. I will not apologise to you, I repeat, I WILL NOT apologise to you for you getting angry at the way I interpreted a very clear post.

It’s their choice to have children.

I think this attitude is part of the reason for the low birth rate. We see ourselves as individuals rather than a community, a human family, whose fates are intertwined.

Everyone in the community benefits when there are enough children and young people in the group. We need each other.

They’re not contradictory opinions at all. There’s such a thing as a middle ground

I expect you to apologise for wrongly accusing me of being glad people are infertile. I have no idea why you’re angry at me when you’ve admitted you misinterpreted my post.

Ive explained well enough. My post was clear. What isn’t clear is why you jumped to such an illogical random conclusion.

TBH I don’t really care if you apologise nor have I demanded an apology. What I suggest is you stop embarrassing yourself by projecting your issues onto things other people say and getting it wrong because one day you’ll do it to the wrong person.

Liberal cultures are more interested in pushing Trans and LGBTQ on kids. That's gonna take a bigger hit still with the next generation's birthrate.

We import about a million people a year into the country anyway. 'have more babies' when the country is overflowing due to high net migration and people living a lot longer.

Why dont we embrace the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VoluntaryHumannExtinctionMovement