To complain about “gender identity” question on a registration form

Manhere2024 · 2024-06-01T08:36:42+00:00

Man here. I just tried to fill in a form sent out by a charity, but one of the questions was: “Is your gender identity the same as the gender you were assigned at birth?” I tried ignoring it, but it’s not possible to submit the form without answering this question. So I emailed them saying that I don’t believe in gender identity theory, & it’s discriminatory for them not to give an option for those of us who are gender critical. I have asked if they can change the form, or handle my registration in another way. I think they’ll be surprised, and perhaps I’ve embarrassed myself. But I won’t go along with something I consider to be harmful and wrong. AIBU? What will likely happen next?

VickyEadieofThigh · 07/06/2024 11:02

Manhere2024 · 07/06/2024 10:30

I think if I did want to take this further, the next step would be to write directly to the Education and Skills Funding Agency, the local council, and the trade association. (I see the trade association has something about introducing a DEI policy on their homepage so they’ve likely been Stonewalled.)

In contacting them I wouldn’t need to mention the name of the small charity. I could just say that I’ve been unable to complete its registration form because I don’t believe in gender identity theory. Therefore I’m excluded from doing the course.

And to ask these three funding bodies to confirm that they require a believe in gender identity theory if you want to do any course with a charitable body that receives their funding? And if they consider that this is lawful in the wake of all the recent rulings and tribunals?

I could also write back to the charity telling them that I understand it’s not directly their fault, and so this is what I’m doing.

I’m not sure if I will bother, but it does irritate me that I’m being excluded from this course on the grounds of my sincerely held and lawful beliefs.

You ought to mention what other pp have said - there's no such thing as "legal gender" and if they're using protected characteristics, the relevant ones in the Equality Act 2010 are sex and gender reassignment.

They're also not supposed to ask such questions without telling you what they're doing with the information.

Original poster

Manhere2024 · 07/06/2024 10:30

I think if I did want to take this further, the next step would be to write directly to the Education and Skills Funding Agency, the local council, and the trade association. (I see the trade association has something about introducing a DEI policy on their homepage so they’ve likely been Stonewalled.)

In contacting them I wouldn’t need to mention the name of the small charity. I could just say that I’ve been unable to complete its registration form because I don’t believe in gender identity theory. Therefore I’m excluded from doing the course.

And to ask these three funding bodies to confirm that they require a believe in gender identity theory if you want to do any course with a charitable body that receives their funding? And if they consider that this is lawful in the wake of all the recent rulings and tribunals?

I could also write back to the charity telling them that I understand it’s not directly their fault, and so this is what I’m doing.

I’m not sure if I will bother, but it does irritate me that I’m being excluded from this course on the grounds of my sincerely held and lawful beliefs.

OP posts:

SerendipityJane · 04/06/2024 17:13

FOJN · 04/06/2024 17:09

I know, not enough eye rolls in the world for the concept of 'legal gender', it's nonsense.

Show quote history

Never ever say that in the earshot of the converted. You need to be uber-serious. Uber and over serious. It's the only way.

Here's an example from another walk of life where fairy stories are taken too seriously (careful you don't fall down a rabbit hole in this site - it features some stellar talent).

Sara Pascoe reads a hilarious letter asking for clarity on God's Law

At the turn of the century, the following letter was sent to Dr. Laura, a US radio personality who regularly and publicly deemed homosexuality to be a “mista...

https://youtu.be/dkw7VdYQzuE

FOJN · 04/06/2024 17:09

SerendipityJane · 04/06/2024 16:57

Is there a list of "legal" genders I can consult. I'd hate to discover I have an illegal gender. after all.

What do we do with people who don't have legal genders ? Do we surround them in the town square and poke them with rolled up copies of the Guardian ?

Where do I report illegal genders? Is there a hotline ?

Edited

I know, not enough eye rolls in the world for the concept of 'legal gender', it's nonsense.

SerendipityJane · 04/06/2024 16:57

Is there a list of "legal" genders I can consult. I'd hate to discover I have an illegal gender. after all.

What do we do with people who don't have legal genders ? Do we surround them in the town square and poke them with rolled up copies of the Guardian ?

Where do I report illegal genders? Is there a hotline ?

FOJN · 04/06/2024 16:54

The Sex Matters website may have relevant information about what to do next if you would like to take it further.

sex-matters.org/

FOJN · 04/06/2024 16:49

“Is your gender identity the same as the gender you were assigned at birth?”

The question does not accomplish their stated aim of ascertaining the 'legal gender' of their learners.

If sex and gender do not match then 'legal gender' can only be changed by applying for a GRC. Without a GRC your 'legal gender' remains the same as your sex observed and recorded at birth You are not allowed to ask to see someone's GRC and minors cannot apply for one. They are asking about 'self identified gender' which they are within their rights to do but self ID is not law and therefore does not change 'legal gender' and even if it was law a GRC would be required to obtain a new birth certificate.

It's depressing how many people fall back on " just following orders" without doing any research.

It is fair to say that funding is often contingent on organisations embracing gender ideology so they are doing what they need to to get funding.

SerendipityJane · 04/06/2024 16:30

Manhere2024 · 04/06/2024 12:30

Here’s the reply from the charity:

“We appreciate that this question may bring some discomfort for you, however due to our funding rules it is a question that needs to be answered.

Our funders removed feed all of our enrolment form questions in to us for enrolling our customers, and it is a requirement for us to know, as an education provider, the legal gender of our learners. Without a completed enrolment form we will not be able to enrol you on to our program and access this funding for you.

I apologise for this and do understand your query.

If you have any further queries please do let us know.”

I’m not sure if I should challenge it further, and if so what should I say.

Obviously it’d be easier just not to bother doing the course with this charity.

But surely they’re being discriminatory by not proving an option to give a gender critical answer to the gender question on their registration form.

TL;DR: "A big boy made me do it".

FFS.

SerendipityJane · 04/06/2024 16:29

the legal gender of our learners.

What the fuck is that when it's at home ?

SpinyNorma · 04/06/2024 13:58

Potential discrimination aside, they can't ask for information relating to protected characteristics, or other special category personal data, unless they have made clear in advance why they need the information and how it will be used. If they just dropped a mandatory question without doing so then they are likely in breach of GDPR.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/06/2024 13:48

Yes dept of education and the local authority are required to record data under the protected characteristics listed in the equality act

other MN have found that when they point out that the protected characteristics in the equality act are sex and gender reassignment and that you can’t unilaterally reword the law they tend to amend them

Original poster

Manhere2024 · 04/06/2024 13:40

I think I can say that the three funders listed on the email are the government’s Education and Skills Funding Agency, the local council, and a trade association.

OP posts:

SharonEllis · 04/06/2024 13:09

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/06/2024 12:48

That’s a nonsense response highlighting that they don’t understand it either

I’d assume their funders are asking to record things under the protected characteristics of the equality act

id write back citing the protected characteristics and asking where ‘legal gender’ fits with this

This. Also possibly find out who the funders are and ask rhem direct. At that point it might be worth contacting Sex Matters about the legality of the funder requiring the information and potentially witholding funding?

araiwa · 04/06/2024 12:58

Manhere2024 · 04/06/2024 12:30

Here’s the reply from the charity:

“We appreciate that this question may bring some discomfort for you, however due to our funding rules it is a question that needs to be answered.

Our funders removed feed all of our enrolment form questions in to us for enrolling our customers, and it is a requirement for us to know, as an education provider, the legal gender of our learners. Without a completed enrolment form we will not be able to enrol you on to our program and access this funding for you.

I apologise for this and do understand your query.

If you have any further queries please do let us know.”

I’m not sure if I should challenge it further, and if so what should I say.

Obviously it’d be easier just not to bother doing the course with this charity.

But surely they’re being discriminatory by not proving an option to give a gender critical answer to the gender question on their registration form.

That's a very polite and long-winded "no"

Feel free to carry on emailing them but you aren't gonna get anywhere.

So tick whichever box and do the course or find something else

Theeyeballsinthesky · 04/06/2024 12:48

That’s a nonsense response highlighting that they don’t understand it either

I’d assume their funders are asking to record things under the protected characteristics of the equality act

id write back citing the protected characteristics and asking where ‘legal gender’ fits with this

dementedpixie · 04/06/2024 12:37

What nonsense is 'legal gender' if you can self declare any old gender you want?

What they have sent makes no grammatical sense either. I dont think they do understand your query at all

Elaan · 04/06/2024 12:36

I'd query it again and tell them they're not being inclusive if you can only access help with gender ideology. Also remember Maya Forstater ,gender critical beliefs are worthy of respect in a democratic society. WORIADS

Original poster

Manhere2024 · 04/06/2024 12:30

Here’s the reply from the charity:

“We appreciate that this question may bring some discomfort for you, however due to our funding rules it is a question that needs to be answered.

Our funders removed feed all of our enrolment form questions in to us for enrolling our customers, and it is a requirement for us to know, as an education provider, the legal gender of our learners. Without a completed enrolment form we will not be able to enrol you on to our program and access this funding for you.

I apologise for this and do understand your query.

If you have any further queries please do let us know.”

I’m not sure if I should challenge it further, and if so what should I say.

Obviously it’d be easier just not to bother doing the course with this charity.

But surely they’re being discriminatory by not proving an option to give a gender critical answer to the gender question on their registration form.

OP posts:

BobbyBiscuits · 02/06/2024 22:20

@EmpressaurusDeiGatti yeah, you're not wrong there.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 02/06/2024 20:23

But they could do that & still include a ‘no gender identity’ option in the question

yes they could…its what the majority of posters are asking for, seems to be a bit too difficult though

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 02/06/2024 20:12

BobbyBiscuits · 02/06/2024 17:51

It's worth noting, that if you only have a question that says 'sex- male or female' it would not be answered biologically correctly by a lot of trans etc people.

The alternative would be transwomen marking themselves as female and being treated as such. In statistics and care plans etc.

To add the question of 'is your gender different to the sex you're born with' encapsulates anyone who sees themselves as another gender. Some people like that don't identify as trans, they might be non binary etc. so you couldn't just say 'are you trans' as it's still not inclusive enough.

There's loads of questions on forms where you just put 'no' or refuse the answer. It shouldn't be seen as an insult to any one group.

But they could do that & still include a ‘no gender identity’ option in the question.

SerendipityJane · 02/06/2024 19:16

The alternative would be transwomen marking themselves as female and being treated as such. In statistics and care plans etc.

Are these questions compulsory then ? Is anyone checking ? Suppose I feel black for a day and answer as such, and then white traveller the next and answer as such ? What's the penalty ?

Self identification is all very well for the feelz. It's fuck all use for grown up planning. As the company that repurposed a toilet as a litter tray for furries found out to their cost.

BobbyBiscuits · 02/06/2024 17:51

It's worth noting, that if you only have a question that says 'sex- male or female' it would not be answered biologically correctly by a lot of trans etc people.

The alternative would be transwomen marking themselves as female and being treated as such. In statistics and care plans etc.

To add the question of 'is your gender different to the sex you're born with' encapsulates anyone who sees themselves as another gender. Some people like that don't identify as trans, they might be non binary etc. so you couldn't just say 'are you trans' as it's still not inclusive enough.

There's loads of questions on forms where you just put 'no' or refuse the answer. It shouldn't be seen as an insult to any one group.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/06/2024 13:20

Manhere2024 · 01/06/2024 09:59

But I’m quite happy to say what I have to say, which is that gender identity goes against my sincerely held belief system.

“Prefer not to say” wouldn’t cover that.

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MYOB would be my preferred response!

SmudgeButt · 02/06/2024 12:44

So if someone has their pronouns in their email signature or declares it elsewhere how are the rest of the world supposed to remember?

I worked with a man who wanted people to use the pronoun "they". No problem. If you remember. In this instance I slipped up a few times because, being old fashioned, I've always referred to men as "he". When I realised that had happened with this chap I apologised and we had a good chat about how language changes.

But if I'd never met someone and called that person "him" I would hope I would get a polite correction rather than a complaint to HR.