MIL thinks having c-section isn’t “giving birth”

Maybe all those who 'haven't thought about' might read these posts and realise how much offence they are causing and think twice the next time they tell a woman she hasn't given birth.

How to defeat anyone in an argument...
You agree with them...
Mil. You didn't give birth.
You . Yes I agree, I had a c section to save my child.

Mil. But you didn't give birth.

You. Yes I agree, I would rather have had a normal birth but thank God the doctors where skilled enough to do their job.
Mil. But it was not a normal birth.
You. I agree it was so stressful, but doesn't the safe delivery of that bundle of joy that is our baby mean so much more.
Mil. Hmm...
Repeat till you defeat her.

She'd get on well with my first MIL, her sisters and the ex. Full on Sheila Kitzinger home birth, zero intervention, zero pain relief, it'll all happen like magic, fans. The ex (and it was the major factor in him becoming an ex within the first 6 months) deeply resented the fact that I'd deprived him of his birth experience - and when I told them what he'd said, both chimed in with 'Oh, but you didn't do anything, you just laid there'.

I was already shellshocked because the epidural hadn't taken properly so I'd felt the incision and freaked out with the pain (the anaesthetist promptly whacked in some extra drugs through my drip and the mask, so I was confused and dizzy rather than fully present) and then there was the fucked up incision site and all of the adhesions, so I still had pain twenty years later - so I spent years believing that I'd started from day one as an abject failure, compounded by DD having horrific colic despite EBF (which was also a nightmare due to my milk taking forever to come in, undiagnosed tongue tie meaning she felt like an angry parrot and because nobody realised that my reliance on dairy - ex was also a rabid vegetarian with a pathological hatred of all vegetables, beans and pulses, so it was the only protein I was able to have in the house - was causing her pain).

The ex's response to my crying about all this? 'It's hard knowing you're an incompetent mother, I suppose it's not your fault really, as the doctors scared you by saying she'd die if you went into labour, though'. My mother wasn't much better because she'd had five kids vaginally and always claimed that surgery never caused her any pain, but she at least recognised that there really wasn't any other choice.

When I eventually had my second child (with somebody else), I had a nice, easy 28 hour labour ending with a forceps delivery. Easy, you say? Yes, easy - because the bruising, episiotomy and ability to move without anything more than sitting down carefully for a couple of days was an absolute doddle compared to giving birth by section.

In short, they can all fuck off.

Completely ignore her, she's one of those birth snobs. Also see women who say it was "easy" and people who look down on epidurals.

I've had one of each, both were hard. Childbirth takes a massive amount of strength and bravery, whichever way you do it.

I agree.

Another cs mum here who would never say I gave birth.

she was delivered. I don’t have the experience of giving birth- her birth was something done to me, I did not give it, if that makes sense.

All the CS mums saying you don’t feel like you “gave birth” - do you also don’t feel like “birth mothers” of your children? I’m genuinely asking, as I find this language topic quite fascinating, especially considering that the official definition clearly does include CS in “giving birth”.

Giving birth is pushing a baby through the birth canal, a c-section is a delivery via c-section. Both result in a baby being born, however they are different. I would tell her that you may not have given birth naturally as they say but as a result of that your body went through more pain over a longer period of time and you have the scar to show for it.

This is how I see it.

Giving birth signals labour and contractions etc.

Don't mean I care, want to debate about the definition of 'giving birth', or am judging you.

I don't understand why anyone cares tbh, all these debates about infant feeding, sleep arrangements, SAHMs vs nursery, best age to procreate, who cares???!!?!

I was wondering when someone would make that link!

To be fair, you wouldn't have the twist without making the distinction between giving birth and being 'untimely ripp'd'.

Birth is defined as 'the emergence of a baby or other young from the body of its mother; the start of life as a physically separate being.'

I never get the hate some have for C-sections. I never had one, don't want one and was very glad I was lucky not to need one but its in no way an easier option.

Vaginal mothers know how hard having newborn is, imagine that after having major surgery aswell - It hardly going to be 'easier'.

I have had an appendectomy and a hernia, both far smaller than a c-section cut and both messed me up badly, I couldn't even sit up by myself.

C-sections literally save lives and are serious procedure, its not a lazy opt out option for women who just couldn't be arsed and the fact some think that show they lack basic critical thinking skills.

Well you could always use this to your advantage rather than trying to get her to change her mind.

I always say to people yes I had an elective c section to avoid later life complications of vaginal delivery, ya know like bladder control etc

Then shut up and see what she says

Simple test. After the procedure will there be a new human being in the room?

If so, that's giving birth. It's the only way (so far) that this can happen.

MIL is a moron.

Birth is such a tiny part of having your baby really, stupid to make out like the major surgery is a lesser way to have to go. I had 2 cs after 3 natural deliveries, women are expected to crack on either way so all hard.

I suppose it depends if she’s being derogatory or not. I’ve had both and I don’t say I gave birth to my C-section DC because I do feel like that meaning sounds vaginally like coming out of the birthing canal. I’ll say ‘when DC was born’ or ‘when I had a c section’. It feels more like a surgery than the giving birth process. I wouldn’t take much notice unless she’s saying it’s less of a birth because it’s still not easy.

But what is natural? Vaginal birth? No pain relief? Why as women do we look at other women and judge other women’s birthing experience? There is also a growing trend to avoid pain relief in birth? Why? would this be expected of men? I really doubt it!

I have recently given birth and found this! Women wanting a certificate because they “didn’t even have gas and air” when telling me their birthing stories (which I never asked for! What is with people doing that?). It is like needing an operation with local anaesthetic and responding with “no thanks. Think I’ll go without.” So bizarre! I knew straight away I wanted an epidural, sod feeling every contraction for 32 hours! Each to their own but no woman should be made to feel guilty for choosing their own path.

The recovery from a c-section is far longer.

I dont know if thats helpful because its not always true. I know plenty of women whose vaginal birth recoveries were way harder than either of my emergency section recoveries. I'd definitely take my mild ache which didnt require pain relief over my sil's third degree tear for example. Took six months before she could sit comfortably.

I have a complicated relationship with my csections but I dont think I gave birth...despite the fact that I laboured with both and have actually spent longer in labour than most people I know who delivered vaginally because it took an awfully long time for the NHS to admit dc1 was stuck. Over 80 hours of back to back contractions, the first of which hurt as much as the last, even though the first came "naturally" and the last were on a drip augmenting labour turned up high. I reached full dilation, I pushed...he was stuck mid pelvis, forceps failed so emergency section.

I was a passenger from the first contraction though, the whole process was very much happening to me rather than something I could control. The same with dc2...I'd booked an elective, jumped through hoops to get an general anesthetic and promptly went into labour ahead of the date and ended up with an entirely different doctor, a spinal and watching her emerge from my body like a grumpy butterfly from a chrysalis.

Would I tell any future daughter in law that she hadnt given birth? No and I think the correct response to any emergency section is probably that said to me by a midwife when dc1 was 5 days old "you poor darling, you've basically given birth twice" even though I didnt see it that way.

I was in labour for nearly three days followed by an emergency section because we both had sepsis. If I didn't give birth to her then I'd like to know who bloody did.

(I had one "friend"who knew all of that tell me "Next time I'm doing it the easy way like you.")

Option C is not to worry about her opinion

"Oh well, I wouldn't save my own life and that of my baby in an emergency situation"

Ok MIL, thanks for sharing.

I always say "when DS was born" rather than when I birthed him because somehow it sounds less graphic haha. I wonder what this demented woman thinks the C section is - when DD was.... Extracted? She's weird, your DD was clearly born!

I'm very bloody proud of having C-sections for my two children. Without the surgery they would both have died and possibly I would have too.

Anyone commenting on the way someone else gives birth has too much time on their hands.

Ignore, ignore ignore.

I don't think my MIL fully grasps that my first (emergency) c section wasn't really a choice I made. "Oh, well I wouldn't have had one" was said a few times! Blew her mind when my second one was very much a choice I made!

Did she co-write a famous Scottish play? 😀

Is she one of the witches in Macbeth?!