Mixed feelings towards friend - admiration/jealousy/frustration. AIBU to ask for advice?

OP, did you try to make the effort to engage with her directly and warmly and she still froze you out? Or were you expecting her to make more of the effort? If so, why?

X-post. I just recognised the situation too.

The only bit that puzzles me is why you went on holiday with peiole you describe as ‘friends’ but don’t appear to know at all well…?

Did you post about this already, also? I have a memory of a thread describing what sounded like a broadly similar situation, an OP having gone on holiday with friends who were the same nationality (and not the same nationality as the OP, who struggled with language issues and their more direct cultural style)?

If so, this holiday is really taking up a lot of space in your head, OP.

I feel bad for you OP, that holiday sounds very disappointing, you were probably looking forward to going away with your new friendship group and then this uncomfortable time. I think you feel rejected by this woman and aren't actually jealous of her. She doesn't sound very nice, ignoring you the way she did and it seems that you adjusted your personality in some way and weren't genuinely yourself as a result. Someone who has no interest in getting to know you is never going to be a long term friend anyway. Maybe the trip you missed because of the funeral cemented the friendship of the other 3 women, who knows.
I would fade out of the group now, their loss.

@Acapulco12 are you the same person who posted about being away practising a language on holiday and one of the women was a bit off with you?

Yeah, it sounds a lot to me like you don’t click or you’re not compatible as friends. I am not sensing that you are gaining much from this friendship.

Perhaps you need to have a think about what it is you’d like from a friend / friendship. Think long and hard and decide whether you get most of that, if at all, from this friend. Otherwise I’d start focusing on building other friendships and spending time with people who make you feel happier

Think this is a bit weird. Can't see what she's done wrong. She's had a harder life than you, you're jealous of her: largely irrelevant but you are making it something. Did you talk to her? She's not the only one who can make an effort! She could probably sense your feelings if you felt strongly enough to post twice about it and thought "fuck it". You're being overly sensitive about the swimming etc. Sounds like you don't click. It happens. Don't think there's a need to make her out the baddie, don't know what you're expecting tbh.

It was not a bad decision to go on holiday with these women. You don't need to be longtime friends to have a great holiday with people. This had the potential to be a great hol. But some people are not compatible travel companions, even if they are compatible as friends at home. Maybe just a weekender next time to test the water.

It doesn't matter what her reasons were for her behaviour. I wouldn't have liked the treatment you described. Thank goodness she is easy to not have around in your life bringing you down. By acting like you are beneath her notice day after day, she's made you feel like you are beneath her. And now you're starting to believe it.

I wouldn't subject myself to the "friend" who ignores you again. Avoid her. But don't burn bridges in an obvious way. Be subtle as you cut them off. Best not make things irreversible in case you change your mind and want to see the other 2 in a few years after cooling off.

I think you are spunding obsessed, maybe have a break he cant make you feel anything you are doing that to yourself, I say this as something to think about not to have a go
but you need to step back

I just found that really unpleasant and rude, and difficult to deal with because she’s never behaved that way to me before.

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You say there was a previous holiday you couldn't go on, did all 3 still go?

I'm wondering if she got used to having more of their attention then and perhaps felt resentful that she had to share on this holiday?

@Acapulco12 you’ve been brave sharing your emotions on this thread. Don’t let others lay into you now that you’ve opened up.

Forgive yourself for going on the holiday. You’ve learned a lot about yourself and about what you want and don’t want. It’s almost like a template. For some reason this woman was like a mirror for you. You realise that she showed you some things you want to have too: house, job, (non-abusive obv) relationship, resilience. It’s great to be inspired by that. She also triggered your insecurities and showed you where you might have limiting beliefs.

There’s nothing mean spirited about you posting about all this, or starting two non-connected threads about the situation. And there’s definitely nothing stealth frenemy like about it. I agree that a lot can be explained by cultural differences. So you can take the good bits from her culture and channel that for yourself.

You’re now letting go of the tension all this created and letting go of the group. And you’re ready to adjust a few things in your life. You got this.

I think she’s probably quite self-centred and she doesn’t really care about the effect she has on others if she doesn’t like them or doesn’t want anything from them.

What is strange about not having time for people one doesn’t like or want anything from?
If one catered to absolutely everyone, one would be spread so thinly one wouldn’t be able have deep or quality interactions!
And I don’t think it’s very healthy to force yourself to be with people you don’t like, as you are discovering!

You seem to be searching for any stick to beat her with.

Your posts contain a lot of reaching, and there is a lot going on inside your head rather than actual bad events that have happened to you.
The only truly bad things that are happening are your unspoken anger and resentment towards her.

I think you need to engage in a little more self reflection.

If I had to choose between being ignored or spending a week with a jealous “friend”, I know which I’d be choosing.

I will chorus the suggestion to speak with a therapist about your difficulties. Find one that has expertise in insecurity and jealousy.

This is a good comment. I’m American who lives in the UK, was fairly ambitious in my career, direct in my conversation, and worked very hard, and on reflection, I’m sure that put some people off. I wasn’t picking up on the nuances in conversations where things were not said or just British banter; the Brits got it, I just didn’t and it has taken me a while to sort this out. Maybe because you were speaking in Portuguese and it is not your native language, some of this happened to you? For example, I didn’t see a lot that was rude in things she said to you in your examples, but I wasn’t there to assess the tone of the conversation.

I’ll also say that being in survival mode hardens people. when you have to fight for everything, it is hard to let your guard down and relax and be vulnerable. (I’m totally guilty of this sometimes). Whilst she absolutely didn’t have the right to be rude to you, she’s in an abusive relationship and has health problems and a stressful job…that combination is going to affect her ability to be empathetic to some degree.

Also, (and I say this gently as you really seemed to have suffered with thinking about this situation), comparison is the thief of joy. Maybe next time go on holiday with some different friends and no need to ruminate on it any longer.

@Acapulco12 I’m really confused how you can admire/be jealous of a woman who stays in an abusive relationship. You said physically abusive, do you see her with bruises when you meet? She doesn’t sound smart at all, I would feel sorry for her and trying to support her by persuading her finding professional help to leave him. Also, what you mentioned about the language that you were communicating, it happens to switch to the language that the majority are native speakers.. especially in holiday. I have seen that in multicultural work environments as well and I adapted. I don’t think they don’t like you though OP but the language thing it is a link between the rest of them so I’m sorry that you are left outside of the circle. They will still see you for coffee etc but not that often. If you want more you need to search elsewhere I’m afraid..

Envy is the ugliest of emotions.

It sounds like this whole intense girly group friendship thing just isn't your cup of tea and doesn't enhance your life.

Your holidays and social group should enrich you and help you reach your goals in life.

It does definitely happen in groups with one person subtly engineering the conversation so another person is ignored or frozen out (they know 100% they're doing it).

Often women who take a jealous dislike to another for an arbitrary reason.

Incidentally, if she's so good at handling herself and being alpha female in a group, why can't she bring those skills to her partner?

Often I find women who treat other women disdainfully to be utter doormats when it comes to men...go figure....?

I'd just focus on your own goals, treat friends lightly.

Time moves so fast, even people who get on really well and have amazing holidays lose contact at your age!

OP, you are devoting far too much headspace to this. Honestly, it’s coming across a bit as though you had built up this friendship in your head to the point that you created an entire fantasy best friends relationship with a woman you really didn’t know very well, and are now angry because it didn’t become a reality. And I have to say, I think it’s possible that some of this rather obsessive focus on her was apparent, and was the reason she was a bit cold towards you- it could have made her quite uncomfortable. Let it go.

She is jealous about you, these are very common reactions of insecure people. Deal with your own insecurities, be proud of yourself without comparing to her. You have something she wants 😁. When you leave/cut these people from your life, the space will be filled by people within your energy. Good luck xx

I don’t think your friend sounds like she’s done anything wrong. I actually think this is your issue and that you are jealous of her, I’m sorry not meaning to sound hard it’s just how it comes across.
Look at your life and makes changes where you don’t feel your needs are being met you’ll soon learn to not envy others and be happy in your own life and journey.

What I will say is you are very right that being a ‘foreigner’ gives you a huge amount of challenge and resilience in life. She has earnt her stripes!!! It sounds like you maybe feel bored with your life and the path you’ve taken. It’s possible her directness isn’t rudeness but more cultural- I think British people are really sensitive to rudeness as it’s our culture whereas many other cultures are more direct in their way of speaking and communicating with less ‘fluff’- it’s actually quite difficult if English isn’t your first language to speak in the exact same way a native British person would phrase things so perhaps she is just doing her best in a foreign language. I’m sure she wouldn’t want you to feel negative about yourself and I doubt your assumptions that she doesn’t like you are true tbh!

Depending on tone this comment isn't especially rude. Are you reading too much into it?

She may look at you and be a little jealous. You haven’t had to strive and move away from loved ones, she has a controlling partner and quite possibly had to fight to go away with friends. Her nature is to be colder than others so she can succeed at being ruthless. She happily talks of her achievements without once considering asking someone else (who has patiently listened to them).

I wonder if she looks at you being happy, self assure and quietly confident with no need to emphasise their achievements, with an air of wistful longing? Working for the government in any capacity is usually a hard slog, not as well paid as you’d like and probably not glamorous!

sometimes friendships evolve in a positive or negative way, this will always happen. I suggest to always aim to surround yourself with people who help you too and make you feel happy.