... to be over the moon that Trump has been found GUILTY on all 34 charges?

@LivelyBlake There's 4 criminal trials, I think.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/05/30/trumps-three-criminal-cases-status/73897879007/

Nobody us talking about the accusation of interfering with the elections, which to me sounds more serious than the falsifications one. Is there a separate trial for this one?

@wallow Yes, I understand that as things stand currently he can't pardon himself.

@SerendipityJane No, I don't think I'm contradicting myself. If Trump is elected president again, I think he will try to pardon himself of all state crimes even if he doesn't do so legitimately and he might de facto get away with that until someone wrests power away from him.

From my reading - over many years - the whole federal/state nature of the US has been designed to prevent tyranny. What to us UKians may look "bonkers" is part of a conscious intent by the possibly over-educated Founding Fathers to create a new land with a new contract between citizen and state.

Ultimately this noble intention was totally kneecapped from the off by the veste interests of the slave states and their realisation - and fear - that an ever expanding nation (which the US was also intended to be) might eventually look unkindly on their peculiar institution. A fear that materialise when us meddling Brits rather unhelpfully stopped the transatlantic slave trade and primed the nation for the first civil war.

However you can't fit that on a baseball cap made in China.

If he's reelected, yes, it's possible he will find a way to destroy the system to the extent such a thing is possible (amusingly, I remember the not so distant days when republicans were hugely keen on states' rights).

But the point some of us were making was that as things stand currently, he can't pardon himself.

I understand that it is well established that an American president cannot pardon himself for state crimes but I still think

Do you not see the absolute contradiction in that single statement ?

Delighted. He’ll definitely make president now.

Or a way to get himself pardoned. Same diff.

Yes

Is it too early to assume that there won’t be any riots?

Source, please? I lived in America for 15 years, follow Trump’s cases in the mainstream American press and am fairly conversant with this question. I have never heard this before. TIA

A conservative Supreme Court might make other kinds of arguments to give Trump an out, but they would not override state governors’ power of pardon for state crimes. After all, ‘States’ Rights’ is a sly reference to support for racial segregation and the oppression of Black people.

The anti-abortion movement rests on vesting power in the states. So does the gerrymandering that Republicans are driving, the cleansing of school libraries, etc. Conservatives are not going to disrupt the powers vested in the states

Well, I understand that it is well established that an American president cannot pardon himself for state crimes but I still think he's going to find a way to pardon himself. Does that make me a fool or ignorant? Okay, fine. It's still name calling.

If he wins I reckon this kind of attack is part of it. It’s just a pushback to it

If you make a lie big enough and tell it often enough ...

Now, where have I heard that before ?

I think it gets frustrating when people wilfully refuse to take on information.

How many times has it been repeated and debunked in this thread that he can pardon himself?

How many times can you respond civilly to disinformation with actual information only to have it ignored or dismissed?

I try not to get into name calling, but I do get the temptation to go there.

How else does one respond to foolish ignorant comments ? And the people who parrot them ?

I never have a problem with anyone who doesn't know something. That's all of us all the time in toto.

What I do have a problem with is people who don't know, get told and carry on not knowing for whatever reason they have.

It's not great when people are calling people "fools" and talking about the "level of ignorance" of people on this thread.

"Because there are 51 constitutions—1 US constitution and 50 state constitutions."

@Chatonette Yes, understood. He has no respect for any of the 51 constitutions and look how he attacked Michigan's Governor and seemed to condone his followers plotting to kidnap her. I would not put anything past him or some of his followers.

I wonder now is Biden next?

It won't.
Full stop.
World 🌎 has gone mad.

Because there are 51 constitutions—1 US constitution and 50 state constitutions.

Although if he becomes “a dictator on day 1” like he has promised, perhaps he will dissolve statehood completely. Who knows?

Its up for legal argument. The Constitution states the President can pardon for "crimes against the United States". I am sure some commentators will say it cannot be done for crimes convicted at the State level but this will go to the Supreme court and they are largely Republican, just look at what happened with Roe V Wade.

Never mind that 17% of voters apparently believe Biden is responsible for overturning Roe.

WTAF
Even though Trump is always bragging, “I killed Roe!”?

He has zero respect for democracy and the US Constitution, as evidenced when he tried to get Mike Pence to refuse to certify the election despite him not having the power to do that, and I'm not as confident as you that he won't find a way to pardon himself of all charges.

It's not your job to stop fools being fools.