... to be over the moon that Trump has been found GUILTY on all 34 charges?

Things Donald Trump said about Hillary Clinton running while under investigation. Simultaneously hilarious and depressing.

“We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial,” Trump rally in Reno, Nevada, reviewed by CNN’s KFile. “It would grind government to a halt.”

“If she were to win, it would create an unprecedented Constitutional crisis that would cripple the operations of our government,” he said. “She is likely to be under investigation for many years, and also it will probably end up – in my opinion – in a criminal trial. I mean, you take a look. Who knows? But it certainly looks that way.”

“She has no right to be running, you know that,” Trump said. “No right.”
Trump at a November 5, 2016, rally in Denver that as “the prime suspect in a far-reaching criminal investigation,” Clinton’s controversies would make it “virtually impossible for her to govern.”

I don't care what 'many liberals got their knickers in a twist' about. That wasn't the subject of my comments.

Someone wished Trump a heart attack. Someone else chided that poster for wishing ill on someone with a child.

I pointed out that Trump regularly wished/threatened ill on his political opponents, from incarceration to execution, and that, pre-Trump, this was unheard of as political discourse from someone in his position. That he bears a huge amount of responsibility for normalising it.

Someone asked for sources. I provided sources. They discounted those sources because they were not to their liking (too reputable).

You came in with Kathy Griffin and George Lopez. I pointed out that these things are not equivalent. Trump has been the most powerful person in the world and hopes to be again. Glenn Beck, Ted Nugent and the lead singer of Creed, although probably vile racists, are also not equivalent. I would also point out that Kathy Griffin and George Lopez have not been invited to the White House during Biden's administration while Ted Nugent, at least, was during Trump's.

Vote for whoever you want or don't vote. But you are engaging in some absolutely ridiculous whataboutism.

@speyside

"Did I miss something I dont think trump declared war on the constitution at any
point in fact asked them to stop it's hardly hsi fault that some of the electorate are degenerate thugs!"

Some facts:

• Trump exhorted his supporters to march on congress while the vote was being certified
• He told them that he had won the election 'by a landslide', they needed to 'fight like hell' and if they didn't they 'wouldn't have a country left'. He said Jo Biden was 'an illegitimate president'.

Not going to ignore that he also said "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard", but he said that within the context of a speech where he strongly, repeatedly and incorrectly promoted the idea to an angry crowd that the election had been stolen, that it was done flagrantly and that his supporters had been disenfranchised.

He said to the crowd: "These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long"

He then apparently watched the riots on TV and did nothing for hours. "top Trump aides, veterans and military leaders, loyal Republicans and even members of Mr. Trump’s own family — the committee established that the president willfully rejected their efforts to persuade him to mobilize a response"

So basically classic Trump behaviour. He opens his mouth and out comes an avalanche of rhetoric that's both inflammatory and contradictory. He does it all the time. It's a Trump strategy - he'll say whatever he thinks he needs to say to get people on side, while also covering his arse.

He's incredibly dangerous.

@SerendipityJane "All countries have their blind spots. The UK is quite OK with people breeding and deploying killer dogs. It's our second amendment."

Well, not strictly true. After a public outcry it became illegal in 2023 to breed, sell, advertise, rehome, abandon or allow an American Bully XL type dog to stray.

Thanks very much for sharing this. It is most interesting.

Yes, over 11,000 amendments have been proposed. 33 have made it past Congress. Only 27 of those have been ratified by the states.

The difference between 2/3 (for the Constitutional Convention - which is 33 or 34 states - and 3/4 -which is 37 or 38 states - may matter in the end! HI, CA, WA, ME, VT, NH, CT, NJ, DE, NY, PA, IA, prob some amongst AZ, NM, OH, WVA, MI, GA are not prepared to ratify. Off the top of my head it is hard to think of more. Very very scary. Aldo they could vote to rescind the 22nd(?) amendment and Guess Who would not be barred from seeking office indefinitely, though at least he does not look terribly healthy

@Nanaof1

"Yet many liberals got their knickers in a twist when Glenn Beck, Ted Nugent, the lead singer of the group Creed and others made "threats" against Obama"

So just to be clear - are you condemning violent rhetoric being used by and against politicians or defending it?

Because Trump has used a fair amount of violent rhetoric in his speeches.

(just noticed I unintentionally quoted from a different post)

All countries have their blind spots. The UK is quite OK with people breeding and deploying killer dogs. It's our second amendment.

Did I miss something I dont think trump declared war on the constitution at any
point in fact asked them to stop it's hardly hsi fault that some of the electorate are degenerate thugs!

I can't see the American people voting for a change in the constitution that also enables them to carry a gun
250 year old laws need to be adapted but that one I think will cause mahem

Im shocked that it has taken so long for the incitement to riot charge to be dealt with. The President of the United States effectively commits treason against the state and gets his followers to storm a government building, threatening to kill senators and it takes 4 years to get anything done about it?

Yes, that is when you know. 🤣

Yet many liberals got their knickers in a twist when Glenn Beck, Ted Nugent, the lead singer of the group Creed and others made "threats" against Obama.

Or is it only comedians who are allowed to make threats?

Hypocrisy is so rampant in the "when they go low, we go lower party", a.k.a. the "be kind party unless you don't agree with us" group.

No matter who wins the election, America will continue to be fucked over and over.

Same. Donald Trump is not a man of God. His $60 bible with additional content grinds my gears.

Of course the 5 November (date of US presidential election) in Britain commemorates a similarly volatile time. Fireworks. And the UK election is on the USA’s independence day. Fireworks. It is an interesting coincidence.

After 9/11 and the passing of the homeland security act, I decided to emigrate from America. A general fear in the population, and reactive laws that restrict personal liberties, pave the way for dictatorships.

Yup, and that is what I was aiming upthread and failed to do so.

I don’t think people realise how quickly the Constitution could be dismantled/amended.

You are quite right, I misspoke. Thank you.

But there is another wrinkle to think about (from https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/19/conservative-supreme-court-amend-constitution )

’there is a conservative movement underway to radically rewrite the US constitution.
The right has already packed the supreme court and is reaping the rewards, with decisions from Dobbs to Bruen that radically reinterpret the constitution in defiance of precedent and sound legal reasoning. But factions of the right are not satisfied to wait for the court to reinterpret the constitution. Instead, they have set their sights on literally rewriting our foundational document.

All 27 amendments to the constitution have been achieved through only one of those mechanisms: by having two-thirds of both chambers of Congress propose an amendment to the constitution and then having that amendment ratified by three-quarters of state legislatures.

There is a second mechanism, however. The second option is to have two-thirds of all state legislatures (34 states or more) apply for a constitutional convention and then to have three-quarters of all state legislatures or state ratifying conventions ratify any amendments proposed by the convention.

To be clear, a constitutional convention under Article V has never before been held. Moreover, the constitution provides no rules on how a constitutional convention would actually be run in practice. There is nothing in the constitution about how delegates would be selected, how they would be apportioned, or how amendments would be proposed or agreed to by delegates. And there is little useful historical precedent that lends insight to these important questions. This means that nearly any amendment could be proposed at such a convention, giving delegates enormous power to engage in political and constitutional redrafting.
A convention would be a watershed moment in American history. And this is exactly what factions of the right are banking on. Rather than a deterrent, they see the constitution’s lack of clarity on how a convention should be run as an opportunity to pursue new theories of constitutional power and change’.

If Trump wins, I suspect this will happen. The constitution will be rewritten and a right-wing Supreme Court will uphold it.

As if approval ratings indicated competency? Non sequitur.

The immunity can of worms is now open, the Biden family companies, Bill Clinton's indiscretions, maybe Bush's war crimes.
The loss of the Senate majority may be illusory but $52.8m in donations in 24 hours mean that the Democrats will find themselves under increasing pressure.

needed to be an underlying crime. And no one has specified what that was.

They were given four options, I believe, including false book keeping. It's not unusual, even in the UK, where, for example, a jury may be told that they can find for manslaughter, or murder.

The false book keeping certainly seems obvious, as he wrote the hush money in the business accounts as legal expenses. They were written off against tax liabilities.

The implacable IRS may now take an interest.

That's an absolute steaming pile of horseshit.

Kathy Griffin is a comedian. I think George Lopez is too (?). They are private citizens with dubious amounts of power and influence.

Donald Trump was the President of the United States and wants to be again. He was the most powerful person in the world.

They two situations are not remotely comparable.

Well, George Lopez wanted Trump killed and Kathy Griffin held up a bloody Trump head. I think the liberals lost all ability to claim the high road on just about anything for the foreseeable future.

Everything that can be leveled at the conservative movement can be leveled at the liberal movement in kind. That is the major problem in American politics. No honest choices, no honest candidates, and a constant choice of "the lesser of two weevils".

Wow! Can I have a ride in your time machine? The "Summer of Love" that I was talking about happened during the summer of 2020.

But hey, good try even if an epic fail. face palm

Election day is Tuesday November 4. Each state runs its own elections with many polling places. If the election is very close, it's likely to be several days after the election before all the results are in as the counting of mail in ballots, which continues past election day, could change the outcome. It's not like there's one central location where blood will be running in the streets on that day.

@Losetowin

That's my contention. That one reason he's so popular with evangelicals is that so many of the leaders are running corrupt grifting operations, his style and operating strategy feels very familiar.

As a Christian I find it shameful the way so many support him. When you realise what a lot of these more prominent and glitzy pastors are doing though (cheating, corruption, emotional abuse of congregation) it kind of checks out though.

yes it’s worrying. I need to check their campaign / election dates as I’m planning a trip there for 6 weeks at some point. I’d rather steer clear of their voting day.