School trip tragedy - prosecutors trying to overturn not guilty verdict of teachers

Exactly this.

The worst happened on a school trip here a few years ago. Total random accident involving 16 year old. The teacher had a breakdown and no school in the city has run a similar trip since. No question of any charges being brought the general feeling was utter sympathy for all concerned.

This sort of thing makes me never ever want to run a trip again-they are horrendously stressful.

YANBU. I'm a languages teacher and have to run residential trips abroad. Although it's a great experience for the kids, it's exhausting, a huge amount of extra work, and frankly I find it unbelievably stressful. It makes me furious when people think it's a jolly for teachers. The level of responsibility is scary, especially when you hear horror stories like this one. Despite the hours you spend on the risk assessments, things can go wrong which are out of your control and which cannot be predicted. Even if you are blameless in a situation like this, it's still a hell of a thing to go through (though not compared with what the poor family is going through, obviously).

“There were a total of 24 British pupils aged 12 to 17 in the water, along with one teacher, with two others monitoring from the shore.”

1:24 ratio is not great. Neither is 3:24 if they were all in the water.

Clearly there is an issue with the pontoon regularly flipping and we would need to know the ins and outs of why, what cautions were issued (if any) for its use and maximum capacity etc.

The lifeguard is perhaps inferring that more lifeguards should have been there (he refers to the size of the area he needs to watch). However the fact he remarks he’s seen it flip lots sounds like he’s trying to use it as an excuse.

I don’t see anywhere in this article that the family say that the teachers were just having a jolly nor do I see them saying that the teachers are to blame. They are asking for accountability for the death of their child through a due process - a due process which includes the teachers, but doesn’t target them.

Teachers are loco in parentis, as it appears you well know. The family have every right to establish if due care was taken of their child.

It is utterly tragic.

This!

Those poor teachers should never have been prosecuted in the first instance never mind being put through it again.

Terribly sad for the girls family but unfair to blame the teachers.

I don’t like school trips involving water even water rides. Those teachers will have been living with this tragedy even day for the last 10 years nearly and it will live with them for the rest of their lives I expect.

The same thing is now likely to happen with the recent mudslide cae

I’m not saying you did… it was to back up my point that a risk assessment should be part of everyones everyday life.

Accident investigations are so important to learn lessons to prevent future tragedies. Huge changes have been made to equipment, methodologies, laws and training as a result of parents pushing the answers

exactly this

Judging from the details on here it wasn't just a tragic accident though. If there has been prior issues then there were clear flags that things needed to improve.

The teachers may well not be to blame, but it sounds like the activity centre might be.

Accident investigations are so important to learn lessons to prevent future tragedies. Huge changes have been made to equipment, methodologies, laws and training as a result of parents pushing the answers

I think there are questions to answer re the pontoon & I want to ask those questions if it was my dc.

As a parent, I do my own checks on any activity. I make sure they are suitably qualified and maintained. We do lots of adventure sports but we carefully research first. If teachers take children they are assuming a lot of those checks

DH actually emailed his son's school to point out their chosen residential centre had an appalling track record for safety and refused to send his son. He got a patronising and dismissive email from school in response. The trip went ahead and a horrible accident happened and it was just good fortune no children lost their lives.

This is what needs to be checked. Did the equipment conform to safety standards?

I didnt imply a risk assessment is a tick box exercise. I complete risk assessments all the time in my job (a very risk averse profession).

These seem like important questions to answer

I don't know what the facts of that case are.

But given the number of times school has taken silly risks with food even after I have run training for them on allergies and worked with the headteacher on allergies it does really frustrate me that some teachers seem to live in a headspace where they just don't understand their responsibilities.

(I do a lot of volunteering work with children, I am always aware that means I am assuming responsibility, with all the implications that entails)

Until someone is held accountable for Jessica's death, we will never be able to process what happened to her. It simply can't be the case, in those circumstances, that a young girl with her whole life ahead of her died and it's no one's fault

This part of the article stuck me. So they can't accept that even after the investigation that her death could just be a tragic accident and they need someone to blame. Rightly so the teachers haven't been prosecuted for this accident, but they must have been through an extremely stressful time. I feel extremely sorry for the family it's terrible to loose a child in such a way but often it is just a tragic accident and no one's fault.

I wouldn't blame teachers for not wanting to take students on holidays like this just in case something happens.

The grounds for the current appeal relate to the upkeep of the orange pontoon which overturned, and the security around it.

According to court papers, prosecutors want to know why it overturned regularly, why there were only three anchor points and not four, and why there was no limit on the number of people allowed on top of it.

Seems fair enough to want to know what's happened here.

I don't agree with prosecuting these teachers. But I do understand why the law treats bereaved parents differently when a child dies. For one thing, there is no living 'victim' to obtain justice for. For another, the parents may well be percieved to be punished by their loss more than the law could ever require. It would be very difficult to argue prosecuting parents was in anyone's interests. While I imagine there would be a great many of the public keen to ensure teachers were held accountable if there was negligence.

I think some people misunderstand the law / what the acquittal actually means or what the purpose of the legal process is in cases like these.

You can be responsible for a child's safety, but that doesn't mean that if that child dies in an accident that you have committed manslaughter by gross negligence.

The question is not "where the teachers responsible for the death?" (arguably they weren't but even if they were...) or "if they had taken different actions, would the death have been avoided?" but actually were their actions (or lack of) so grossly negligent as to actually constitute a crime.

I personally think that threshold should be high. Otherwise we risk criminalising a very unlucky few essentially for having responsible jobs that involve (some) risk.

I think it's obvious that these teachers are not criminals. They haven't recklessly gone into this situation not caring whether the children live or die(!). They haven't repeatedly ignored warnings or safety advice. They've just gone to work and been incredibly unlucky. They will live with this terrible event for the rest of their lives.

A risk assessment isn’t just a tick box exercise. I hope everyone does a dynamic mental one for everything they do. I teach my students and my own children to assess risk in everything they do and weigh up the risk/benefit.

But a written one is done for legal purposes.

If you read the article, the appeal is mainly focused on the lifeguard and the local authority responsible for the upkeep on the pontoon and swimming area.

"The grounds for the current appeal relate to the upkeep of the orange pontoon which overturned, and the security around it.

"According to court papers, prosecutors want to know why it overturned regularly, why there were only three anchor points and not four, and why there was no limit on the number of people allowed on top of it."

The teachers, as they were part of the original prosecution will be aware of the appeal. But it seems the focus is not on them, but on why the pontoon was not anchored properly, and why there were no limits on how many swimmers could be on it at any time.

It was a tragic accident. No one is to blame.

An awful tragedy. But I think the parents already have their answers.
The pontoon was inadequately anchored, only 3 anchor points were secured where there should have been 4.
The lifeguard had witnessed the pontoon flipping several times previously so it should have been repaired or replaced.
As long as the lifeguard reported it to the local authority, his manager, filled in correct incident reports ( whatever their reporting process is) then whoever did not shut down/remove/repair or replace the pontoon is at fault.

unless the teachers witnessed the pontoon flipping previously and ignored that they cannot be held responsible as they could not know about its anchorage.