School trip tragedy - prosecutors trying to overturn not guilty verdict of teachers

Honestly I don’t get this obsession with school trips anyway. In my country we only had day trips to theatre or museums and everyone was totally fine. These school trips are just not necessary

Years ago, I was a parent helper for a four hour trip to London zoo and had to supervise six seven year-olds. I found it incredibly stressful and struggled to keep an eye on them all as they got excited and ran around.

i simply cannot imagine taking a larger group abroad. Never mind doing activities. Just the travelling from A to B would destroy me. if I was a teacher, I would not want to run school trips and admire those who do. Especially residential ones and especially abroad.

I do sympathise with those that were there when it happened, @Fairydustandsparklylights .

But please do not frame this as the parents taking action against the teachers- why are you doing that? This is not a parent v teacher situation, but a legal process taking place in France. The parents are not suing the teachers, not do they have any say in who is prosecuted. It is a health and safety case going though the French courts.

I don't think the teachers are responsible here.
The pontoon wasn't secured properly and that's the responsibility of whoever owns the lake and also the responsiblity of the lifeguard to report that the pontoon was flipping over which it had done many times previously. The lifeguard is also responsible for monitoring overcrowding.

Very sad, but I agree, it's not the teacher's fault. Its a shame many schools don't do trips anymore.

I remember fondly some great trips

They also want to know why adults, including the teachers, did not intervene when they saw the platform was overcrowded

This is an interesting point though. I would have thought that the lifeguard should have intervened when it was clear that the pontoon was overcrowded. But then, some things happen very quickly, so the time frame is an important factor.

I think the only responsibility a teacher would have, is to reinforce the lifeguard advice ...

@CassandraWebb can I ask how do you do these checks? Is it a case of Google or is there somewhere else that you look? Do you go in person?

I completely agree. The parents want to blame someone but would they want a manslaughter verdict if it had happened on a family holiday. I feel sorry for the teachers. I struggle to think about anything worse than being a teacher, it’s one of those jobs that takes over your life and you get so little recognition.

Nothing would be picked up in any investigation because LA imposes the ratio and the ratio was correct without the extra adult, 1 adult for 20 students for that year group. This I believe is nationwide more or less, so they actually made my friend a massive 'favour' by adding an extra member of staff.

I really feel for the teachers/lifeguard.
From what's presented in the article it just reads as a tragic accident. But if anyone should be considered to blame surely it's those responsible for the upkeep/securing of the pontoon - sounds like it was known to flip, only secured at 3 points not 4, no maximum capacity identified - yet there's little mention of this authority being investigated/cleared.

In terms of the teachers risk assessment; they took the group swimming to a lifeguarded area, one in the water and 2 on the bank. That all sounds like a properly organised activity. If the teachers had taken the group to butlins would they have been expected to walk the pool/slides sight reviewing safety features/maximum capacity for any floats/stairways were safe etc. Absolutely not. If however the teachers were taken the kids to swim in a lake next to a campsite for example with no lifeguard cover/just a lake no setup for play then I would expect a full risk assessment of the area and how they were going to keep the group safe themselves.

Years ago I worked at an outdoor residential centre where we'd take school groups on river trips with rafts - some inflatable some constructed by the children with barrels logs and ropes, these would flip in the water and there was always potential for accident/injury. It was the centre who were responsible for the main risk assessment, which would be no simple task there's no 'raft building river trip' qualification that staff could undertake. The teachers wouldn't be trained/qualified to begin to anticipate and mediate risks on this kind of activity. Their responsibility would be to make sure the centre was properly accredited to provide the activity.

In this case I would not expect the teachers to have judged the safe capacity for what probably appeared like a secured pontoon which was also being overseen by a lifeguard. There's no mention of the lifeguard was absent, it sounds like they recognised an accident had occurred and rescued her from the water. Tragically couldn't be saved but not something the lifeguard should be prosecuted for. The ambulance/hospital teams couldn't save her either should they be to blame?!?!

I remember this tragedy and seeing the teachers crying as they left the courthouse.
I no longer run school trips since the time that a couple only told me that their child often tried to run away as they dropped him off at the coach.

They also want to know why adults, including the teachers, did not intervene when they saw the platform was overcrowded.

That's from the article and That's the only time they mention any potential wrong doing on behalf of the teachers.

Stressful as it is for everhone involved it's good that the prosecutors are looking at all angles. That's the only way to reduce the risk of accidents like this happening in the future. I assume the teachers will be acquitted again as they can't be blamed for a tragic accident.

Even when the pontoon overturned I assume they couldn't be expected to know that the girl had been hit on the head. If this kept happening I can imagine everyone else was laughing and finding it great fun. However, obviously a pontoon is not meant to flip over and the fact that whoever was responsible for the lake and pontoon did not bother to do something about it does need investigating.

24 students to 3 teachers also doesn't seem enough for a water based activity but again that is not the teacher's fault.

Anyway my point is when an accident happens you have to reflect on whether anything could have prevented it or what lessons can be learnt but it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is actually at fault.

when i was 16 and off to college for A-levels, I chose Biology A-Level. I had to sign a piece of paper to tell the college that I agree to go on a class field trip to Somerset as part of my A-Level coursework. If I didn't go, I wouldn't get my A-level because the trip was mandatory. I realised later as I became more mature that it was just a free week off for teachers while A-Level biology students sludged through dirty water and swaps, pretending to examine insects and whatnot.

How on earth do you think that being in charge of a group of students 24 hours a day for a week, away from your own family, having had to organise the trip, not to mention set work for your other classes while you're away is 'a free week off'?! You really haven't got a clue.

The quest for vengeance won't ease the pain of the parents. To pursue the teachers is cruel and unwarranted.

Accidents happen. The pontoon had overturned many times with no drownings over that summer. Of course it should have been better anchored but how the parents think the teachers should know that is beyond me.

Those teachers have been through hell already for something that wasn't their fault. The parents need counselling not revenge.

I'm surprised that further maturity hasn't led you to realise that you were wrong to think it was a free week off for the staff. Do you really imagine it's a jolly for them to be standing around supervising in muddy swamps making sure that students are safe and behaving, not running off or attacking each other, and being available to answer questions etc? Let alone being on call all night to oversee said students and deal with any emergencies?

Parents absolutely are and can be investigated. I dont know why you think they aren't!

It appears that there is more to the teachers' involvement than simply being aware of the appeal. The report says it is aimed at overturning their acquittal also.

According to the report, the concern with the teachers seems to be that they should have intervened on seeing that the pontoon was overcrowded. However, they weren't to know that it wasn't fully anchored, and I would say they were entitled to rely on the expertise of the relevant staff including the lifeguard.

And that is the kind of thing that an inquest or investigation would drill into. And then lessons can be learnt and improvements made. If I was refused the help I felt was needed I would either keep a paper trail or that fact or if I felt it was really unsafe I would refuse to go.

Anyone who says leading these trips is a jolly for the teachers has clearly never done it. It is a one way risk. If it goes well you come home tired and stressed, if it goes badly you have revisit decisions for hours which you only had a few seconds to make before. I used to do it for a voluntary organization, I don't any more. The range of expectations from parents is too high some don't let little bobby out of their sight at any time despite him being 17 and expect the same level of supervision, but these kids are then higher risk as they have no self-awareness and minute you don't supervise them 100% of the time something goes wrong.

I agree. I do risk assessments for work, but also in my personal life. Just yesterday, I was at a busy cross road Junction with my children. So you've got traffic coming in all directions, filters, etc. The pedestrian crossing does take ages to change. Dc moaning as a man crossed the road, why can't we just cross. I explained, unless they know for certain its safe, and where the next car is going to be coming from, it's not worth the risk. The next second, a car comes flying around the corner. So yes, I do mental risk assessments multiple times in a day.

What utter rubbish.
Some A levels have a compulsory fieldwork aspect to them which used to be compulsory to complete: we used to warn non attenders they would have to complete the work via their or organisation during the holidays if they didn't attend because we couldn't sign off to the exam board that their fieldwork was done.

For A level you are expected to gather your own data AND teachers are very very limited as to what input or advice they can give you as you're A level students so you're supposed to have a modicum of intelligence and drive.

So the teacher will have given up 2/3 nights of their own time, potentially driven a minibus to a field study centre and supervised kids 24/7 who are old enough to get up to god only knows what (anyone had the "our daughter got pregnant on a school trip" issue because I know someone who did). It's hugely stressful, unpaid and whilst it can be so worthwhile it's a huge responsibility.

It’s clearly an issue of poor equipment maintenance.

So like, 20 kids and 20 parents? Must have been an expensive trip and a very wealthy area- definitely not a standard. We went on a trip to France at the age of 14 and had 2 teachers with us.

I was thinking about parents. When I went on a school trip to Germany at age 12 we all had our parents with us as it involved water parks

How is it a free week, when they probably had to give up their actual free evenings with friends and family supervising an ungrateful bunch of entitled kids not doing the work but pretending to? You think anyone actually gives up weekends and evenings because they want to? Dont think you became more mature really.