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To not give way on dual carriageway?

113 replies

Cheerstoyoutoo · 30/05/2024 15:24

So I’m driving down the dual carriageway in the left lane and there’s a car waiting to turn into the lane I’m driving on although it’s not a slip road or anything, it’s just a straightforward juction so the car was stationary indicating left and waiting to turn. I continued to drive but I think they expected me to move over for them as I got the finger, flash, etc. I always move over where possible for cars merging via the slip roads but this wasn’t the set up here. The car is question turned after I and the car behind me passed so it’s not like they were even waiting very long. I’m a really nervous driver following a collision some months ago so I tend to avoid changing lanes unnecessarily but it got me wondering should I have moved in this scenario? Thanks.

OP posts:
Nottherealslimshady · 31/05/2024 04:23

You needmore lessons urgently op. You are not a competent driver at all, changing lanes is a very simple, basic maneuver. Being reluctant to overtake slow vehicles increases the risk to every body else who nowhave to overtake TWO slow moving vehicles.

Low confidence, hesitant driving causes accidents.

Yes if someone is waiting to enter a fast moving road and there's a lane free you move over and give them more space, to make it safer.

mathanxiety · 31/05/2024 02:30

Thepartnersdesk · 30/05/2024 22:16

I drive on roads with a lot of these types of junctions.

I'd recommend always checking your mirrors and blind stops as you approach and pulling out whenever you can.

No you don't have to but people often misjudge the speed or pull out regardless on the assumption you will move over.

If you are nervous then much better to prepare for this than have to do so in a split second.

I have points on the road where I always try and move into the outside lane as there are very short slip roads with little visibility so the cars just appear.

Staying on the inside isn't the safest option.

This.

Magnastorm · 31/05/2024 00:05

If you are that nervous about such a simple thing as changing lanes then you need to think about whether you are a safe driver and whether you should be on the road.

I mean, that's about as basic as it gets.

Oblomov24 · 30/05/2024 23:40

@Cheerstoyoutoo
No that's not what I said. You are misquoting me. Deliberately. You are missing the point. You should be able to move over easily, checking to make sure it's safe of course. But your accident makes you apprehensive, thus unsafe.

You are picking holes. But a pp, a driving instructor told you:
@bozzabollix :
"Driving instructor here. This worries me somewhat. Yes if you’re on a dual carriageway with a junction where somebody has to stop before joining you don’t need to move over. But a slip road joining does depend on people moving over to let others on, if one of my students couldn’t change lane then they certainly wouldn’t be competent enough to face a driving test. Being reluctant to change lane when it’s safe is dangerous.

If you only passed two years ago seek out your old instructor and pay for a lesson. It’ll take just the one and could save you from an accident. There’s no shame in going back for some help, I’d be happy to do that with any of my ex students, especially if they found themselves anxious about something. These things are easily fixed."

Cheerstoyoutoo · 30/05/2024 23:26

CallThatCloudy · 30/05/2024 23:01

Very surprised that the voting is coming out 50:50 on this. Not pulling over to the right hand lane in no way makes you a bad, poor or unsafe driver, possibly lacking some courtesy, maybe, but even that would depend on what other traffic was doing, how long the guy would have had to wait to pull out anyway, was it perhaps a crossroads if there was no sliproad? Who knows? Regardless, where he was waiting was either a give way (most likely) or possibly a stop, and if the OP had pulled over the car behind (and any furher back) would have had to pull over as well for the guy pulling out to be safe. The rule is to stay in the left hand lane except when overtaking (as discussed MANY times on MN), and even if it is courteous to sometimes do otherwise, it's not the rule.

Edited

The rule is to stay in the left hand lane except when overtaking (as discussed MANY times on MN)

Thats a fair point actually. Wonder if it’s in the Highway Code (goes to look).

OP posts:
CallThatCloudy · 30/05/2024 23:01

Very surprised that the voting is coming out 50:50 on this. Not pulling over to the right hand lane in no way makes you a bad, poor or unsafe driver, possibly lacking some courtesy, maybe, but even that would depend on what other traffic was doing, how long the guy would have had to wait to pull out anyway, was it perhaps a crossroads if there was no sliproad? Who knows? Regardless, where he was waiting was either a give way (most likely) or possibly a stop, and if the OP had pulled over the car behind (and any furher back) would have had to pull over as well for the guy pulling out to be safe. The rule is to stay in the left hand lane except when overtaking (as discussed MANY times on MN), and even if it is courteous to sometimes do otherwise, it's not the rule.

Scruffily · 30/05/2024 23:01

PippyLongTits · 30/05/2024 15:29

Continuing to drive was the right course of action. You have right of way and a responsibility to the person behind you to keep the flow of traffic moving. The other driver can come onto the road when there is a gap in traffic and when it is safe for them to do so.

Edited

Changing lanes when it's safe doesn't stop the traffic moving.

Thepartnersdesk · 30/05/2024 22:16

I drive on roads with a lot of these types of junctions.

I'd recommend always checking your mirrors and blind stops as you approach and pulling out whenever you can.

No you don't have to but people often misjudge the speed or pull out regardless on the assumption you will move over.

If you are nervous then much better to prepare for this than have to do so in a split second.

I have points on the road where I always try and move into the outside lane as there are very short slip roads with little visibility so the cars just appear.

Staying on the inside isn't the safest option.

mathanxiety · 30/05/2024 21:53

And you need to develop more confidence changing lanes.

A nervous driver who won't change lanes can be a danger to other users of the road.

schloss · 30/05/2024 21:53

Babyboomtastic · 30/05/2024 20:44

The OP has a car right behind her. If she had murdered over, it would have only been safe for Angry Man to join if that car had moved over too. Given how angry he was, any bets on whether he'd have pulled out straight into the path of the second car if the OP has moved?

In any event, Angry Man was able to safely join once there was a break in the traffic, so it actually wasn't a problem.

Yes, there are times when the circumstances mean people need to help you join, but given the ease that he was same to do it here, it doesn't sound like one of them.

Most of my local dual carriageways are 40-50, with only a few 70 stretches (which all have sliproads). Their visibility is excellent.

There are a lot of 60 roads though, with no second lane for traffic to go into, and with far less visibility, where you have to pick your moment carefully.

I think you will find it is exactly what would happen, the OP pulls over, followed by the car behind her.

The difference in opinions in the replies is probably highlights the differing areas we live in. We have a couple of fast section of dual carriageways with numerous junctions on them without slip roads. A lot of the traffic joining is tractors and stock trailers, if people did not move over it would be almost impossible for the slower moving vehicles to join safely.

mathanxiety · 30/05/2024 21:51

You should have pulled over to facilitate traffic flow even though it wasn't a slip road.

I don't really understand why you wouldn't have done that.

LlynTegid · 30/05/2024 21:49

Normally I think you should. Though given the reaction you got, I'm glad the other motorist was kept waiting.

Babbahabba · 30/05/2024 21:37

You don't need to keep checking- you'll never change lanes. You should be checking your rear view and wing mirrors a lot anyway when driving at high speeds on dual carriageways/motorways- you should be aware of the traffic behind you and at the sides of you.

kitteninabasket · 30/05/2024 21:32

I feel like I have to check then check again when I change lanes.

This isn’t a bad thing though. You can check mirrors as you’re approaching a junction, check mirrors again if you need to move, and then quickly check over your shoulder. I’m constantly checking all around me. The more you do it the more it will become second nature. I really would recommend some advanced lessons. Not because I think you’re a bad driver, but because it will do a lot for your confidence and hopefully make driving feel less stressful.

Babbahabba · 30/05/2024 21:31

Changing lanes isn't risky if done properly. Why would you do it "without thinking"? You would carry out the usual checks and move over only if safe.

Cheerstoyoutoo · 30/05/2024 21:04

Babyboomtastic · 30/05/2024 20:59

Moved, not murdered 😳

Haha. It’s ok, I think this angry person wanted to murder me like. But in all seriousness, I feel
like I have to check then check again when I change lanes. It doesn’t feel like a simple thing for me because I feel like one mistake and we’re all dead. That’s what I mean when I say I’m in a constant state of hypervigilence. I know I’m not a great driver so I avoid risky manoeuvres but it’s a vicious circle. DH says I’m amuch better driver than I give myself credit for so I think a lot of it is down to confidence plus common sense has never been my strength 😬

OP posts:
Babyboomtastic · 30/05/2024 20:59

Moved, not murdered 😳

Babyboomtastic · 30/05/2024 20:44

schloss · 30/05/2024 20:17

Joining from a normal junction onto a dual carriageway, where the speed can be 70mph, can be very dangerous as there is no slip road to gain speed. At 70mph type speeds, a gap to join the dual carriageway does not always appear. So the majority of other drivers will use common sense and move to the right hand lane, allowing the driver from the junction to join more safely.

The OP has a car right behind her. If she had murdered over, it would have only been safe for Angry Man to join if that car had moved over too. Given how angry he was, any bets on whether he'd have pulled out straight into the path of the second car if the OP has moved?

In any event, Angry Man was able to safely join once there was a break in the traffic, so it actually wasn't a problem.

Yes, there are times when the circumstances mean people need to help you join, but given the ease that he was same to do it here, it doesn't sound like one of them.

Most of my local dual carriageways are 40-50, with only a few 70 stretches (which all have sliproads). Their visibility is excellent.

There are a lot of 60 roads though, with no second lane for traffic to go into, and with far less visibility, where you have to pick your moment carefully.

kitteninabasket · 30/05/2024 20:35

AutumnLeaves5 · 30/05/2024 20:29

Pulling onto a dual carriageway from a junction is not easy. Not only do you need a gap in traffic, but a big enough gap to get up to 70mph from a standing start.

There’s one near me and if I see anyone waiting at that junction, I will always pull into the outside lane provided it’s clear. Mainly as it’s the considerate thing to do, but there’s also a greater risk that the person waiting gets impatient, or underestimates the gap needed, so I’d much rather be out of their way in the outside lane!

I do wonder if people saying ‘there’s no obligation’ have ever attempted to pull out from one of these junctions or a very short slip road. My car isn’t particularly powerful either which makes it extra stressful.

AutumnLeaves5 · 30/05/2024 20:29

Pulling onto a dual carriageway from a junction is not easy. Not only do you need a gap in traffic, but a big enough gap to get up to 70mph from a standing start.

There’s one near me and if I see anyone waiting at that junction, I will always pull into the outside lane provided it’s clear. Mainly as it’s the considerate thing to do, but there’s also a greater risk that the person waiting gets impatient, or underestimates the gap needed, so I’d much rather be out of their way in the outside lane!

MrsTerryPratchett · 30/05/2024 20:26

NoSnowdrop · 30/05/2024 20:23

Reluctance to change lanes and not understanding that overtaking is sometimes a necessary manoeuvre is worrying. These things become easier with practice and experience on the road.

Agree with PP that you would benefit from more lessons for everyone’s safety.

the person who gave you the finger was a dick though.

All of this. People who avoid changing lane are clearly not great drivers. It's one of the signs!

Get a couple of extra lessons.

Cheerstoyoutoo · 30/05/2024 20:23

NerrSnerr · 30/05/2024 20:20

but surely that’s how accidents happen? Moving over without thinking about whether it’s safe or not? Mirror, indicate and move over. I make an assessment in-between checking my mirrors and indicating on whether or not it’s safe to change lanes. Or are you one of those people that just indicate and go regardless?

They don't mean just indicate and go, they mean that coming up to the joining you'll be automatically looking in your right mirror so you can plan what to do (there would have been a sign almost certainly). Then if someone wants to join you do the mirror, signal, manoeuvre without much thought because you've already assessed the road. The more you do it the quicker the process is- even done safely.

Ah, ok I understand. I will start doing this.

OP posts:
NoSnowdrop · 30/05/2024 20:23

Reluctance to change lanes and not understanding that overtaking is sometimes a necessary manoeuvre is worrying. These things become easier with practice and experience on the road.

Agree with PP that you would benefit from more lessons for everyone’s safety.

the person who gave you the finger was a dick though.

Cheerstoyoutoo · 30/05/2024 20:22

kitteninabasket · 30/05/2024 20:11

I always start checking my right mirror when I know I’m coming up to a slip road / junction that joins the DC. That way I know the likelihood of being able to move over should I need to. In the event it looks unlikely I will be able to move, then I know a few seconds in advance to slow down slightly if somebody is trying to join. If I can move, obviously I do further quick checks then make the manoeuvre. Anticipating and preparing, thinking several steps ahead, can help you to feel more on control. In your shoes I’d book advanced driving lessons to help you to feel more confident.

I do the same when approaching slip roads but I didn’t think to do the same with junctions. I will definitely start doing this from now on. Thanks.

OP posts:
NerrSnerr · 30/05/2024 20:20

but surely that’s how accidents happen? Moving over without thinking about whether it’s safe or not? Mirror, indicate and move over. I make an assessment in-between checking my mirrors and indicating on whether or not it’s safe to change lanes. Or are you one of those people that just indicate and go regardless?

They don't mean just indicate and go, they mean that coming up to the joining you'll be automatically looking in your right mirror so you can plan what to do (there would have been a sign almost certainly). Then if someone wants to join you do the mirror, signal, manoeuvre without much thought because you've already assessed the road. The more you do it the quicker the process is- even done safely.