Are women actually unkind to each other due to “jealousy”?!

Totally. That's why I said 'threatened' earlier in my comment, 'rather than jealous as sych'. I don't think she's jealous of me at all, to be frank. But I think people often conflate the two, which is why I gave my story as an example.

don't think I'm particularly talented but I do work extremely hard. She doesn't. I think that my arrival took away a place that was 'hers'. Later heard she'd been telling a lot of lies about me to coworkers, sharing her opinion that I am snobby and superior. I'm really not. My 'area for improvement' from my line manager is to be more confident and less of a people pleaser.

Nothing indicates she is ‘jealous’ of you though?
If anything, it appears she is insecure and doesn’t know how to relate to you in a work environment?

I agree for the most part. The vast majority of people I know would not let envy colour their behaviour towards others.

However, I do think people can feel threatened by others rather than jealous as such. I moved jobs relatively recently and a previous colleague works at my new place. We used to be very friendly but she has been icy towards me since I joined, especially when I got a promotion that essentially placed me above her in the workplace hierarchy.

I don't think I'm particularly talented but I do work extremely hard. She doesn't. I think that my arrival took away a place that was 'hers'. Later heard she'd been telling a lot of lies about me to coworkers, sharing her opinion that I am snobby and superior. I'm really not. My 'area for improvement' from my line manager is to be more confident and less of a people pleaser.

For me, sometimes I just instantly don't like someone, whether that be a man or a woman. I can't really explain why, I meet them and there's a instinctual feeling that I don't like them, or to be wary of them. It's nothing to do with jealousy in those cases.

Also, you can be envious of someone and still really like them. So the whole 'you hate then because you're jealous' doesn't really make much sense.

I agree that some people put others down to make themselves feel better, due to insecurity. Some people are definitely competitive and i think it must be exhausting!

I’ve sensed that competitive undercurrent with the mother of one of DD’s former school friends. A group of Mums keep in touch and she’s the only one who gives off this vibe. She wants HER DD to be the best and it’s so silly as the girls are all talented in different areas.

Being envious won’t change anything!

'We are far worse"

Rubbish. Speak for yourself mate. I've known some bloody appalling men.

Can't say I have ever been jealous of one particular woman. As a group I am envious of those who are apparantly effortlessly slim, and I've always wanted to be a bit taller and have long red curly hair 🙂.
I find women yawn-inducing on the whole, or nasty and cruel, talking behind your back, or being two faced. Men also are dull or talk over me, or are patronising, or are so shallow - just judging worth by appearance. I tend to assume the opposite - if a man is goodlooking he's probably not worth knowing unless he proves he has a few brain cells to rub together.
As a geek I find almost all women's and most men's conversations boring. I suffer it, there is the occasional highlight...
These days I also get judged for my age, which is very annoying. This is the great advantage of being online as a geek, LOL. So I suppose I am jealous of the young 🙁
My daughter thinks she is autistic and that I am too. I find it hard to judge people's moods; my daughter appears to find it impossible - which makes her very difficult to get along with. However I think that it's an IQ thing - while it's gratifying to be part of the "in crowd" it's also tedious to keep up the pretense of being interested.

Ocelotstripes

I was going to write similarly. Some people need to feel they are ‘superior’ to those they have historically felt better than. When the tables turn whether that is unhappiness in their own circumstances or those they feel superior towards, it shows in bitterness and meanness

I don’t believe they want what the other person has, it’s more about their own ego.

The poster above wrote about her friends being jealous of her new house. They were not genuine friends, they very possibly didn’t want or even like her particular house, it was more likely they are people with superiority complexes and are accustomed to feeling ‘better than’ (and that in itself is rarely warranted),. This results in a bruised ego and the need to push the person responsible for denting their ego back down so they can float like cream back on top.

I've never been unpleasant to anyone I percieve as being prettier or more successful than me in my life. In all honesty, that would amount to a LOT of women, and with the best will in the world, I doubt I'd get round them all.
Not sure quite why my comment in particular has pulled your chain, but you're barking up the wrong tree with me mate. There's very few people I dislike. And almost none of them are other women.

I do think it’s more complicated than just plain jealousy….especially within friendships, it’s more insecurity, a lot of seemingly successful (on various perceived levels) women are insecure also and derive their satisfaction/confidence by not just being pretty/successful/wealthy but by feeling they are prettier/wealthier/more successful than others, not by their own personal satisfaction, regardless of what they have and how happy it makes then it only matters if they perceive others to have less….they can’t stand the challenges to their egos and lash out when it happens often in the only way they really can by being mean.

See I look at it the other way @5128gap when I see posts like yours I just think smoke screen defence for being a c*nt to someone who you perceive as prettier and or more successful than you are….😀….why don’t you like someone though that is the question isn’t it?

Yes! Some women and men are definitely unkind to others because of jealousy. Or because the other person make them feel inferior in some way (which is similar to jealousy).

But I think where women differ from men specifically is women will judge other women quite harshly for perceived moral failings, and police other women in their in group. At its best that does mean there is push back against genuinely wrong behaviour. At its worst and most toxic you get purity spirals, competitive virtue signalling etc and bitchiness/someone being pushed out for something minor. Men on the other hand tend to police other men in their in group much less. At least for moral failings. At its best that means there is less purity spiralling/weirdness about micro-aggressions in all male groups. At its worst they are way less likely to call out or try to stop men in their "in group" doing really awful stuff. Hence terrible news stories and you think why did no-one stop them? Or why men will get very defensive if their friends or people they see as the same group as them is criticised, whereas they might agree "other group of men" are a problem. But on the other hand loyalty is sometimes good. Both extremes are toxic, in moderation both tendencies are fine.

So I don't think the main reason women seem more toxic/prone to arguing with each other is because they get more jealous.

No, I don't think so. It's just become a lazy go to way to discredit anyone with an opposing view, or to comfort yourself if some dislikes you.

In my experience yes it is jealousy. My mum was stunningly beautiful, kind, successful, classy and my dad adored her when I was younger. My aunts ( dad's sister and sister in law so the wife of his brother) were both bitchy, catty and routinely left her out of their meet ups despite her never doing anything to them. I can only assume its because they struggled to achieve what came so naturally to her and couldn't slag people off which was their main source of conversation around my mum as she was genuinely nice to everyone. I'm sure they'd have told themselves it was because she was boring or stuck up or whatever but we all know deep down it's jealousy. As an adult I look back at how they treated her and it does make me feel differently about them tbh.

In my experience? Yes. And I am definitely not “lazy”. Bitchy comments about the house I had bought from old school friends I hadn’t seen in a couple of years included “there is no way you live here” and “ who did you shag to get this?”. That is jealousy, absolutely. Because I definitely DID live there and own (with a mortgage) the house, I hadn’t been given or inherited anything and I definitely didn’t shag anyone to buy it! Needless to say, they are no longer my friends.
In my experience, other women can be bitchy and jealous over looks, money, possessions, or your partner (if he treats you well).

I don’t think either of those situations describes someone being jealous of you though.

Yanbu

Hate this it's so lazy

I’ve definitely experienced it. An ex friend settled for the guy she’s still with (she told me on different occasions drunk that she thinks she can do better and still has feelings for an ex)

Whenever I showed her a photo of a guy I was talking to or seeing she did nothing but slate their appearance or insist I don’t go on a date - likely because she was worried I’d be in a happy relationship. She was obsessed with me being single, she made it my entire personality … so odd.

Lots of women come across unkind on mumsnet.

Sometimes the phrase 'internalised misogyny' is used to blame men when actually women should be made to take ownership of their own terrible behaviour towards other women.

I always sigh when I read posts where the stock answer is jealousy. It seems such an immature response. I assume the posters saying it are
a) young,
b) have never lived outside the environment they grew up in
c) are immature themselves
d) are inarticulate and use the word jealousy because they don’t have the vocabulary or ability to express what they are trying to say properly.

I don’t think I’ve ever heard men being accused of being jealous of each other.

I certainly don’t think it’s always about envy. More often than not, it will be something else. But some people (I don’t think it’s just women!) are insecure and envious in a way that manifests itself in unpleasant behaviour. Sometimes they will defend it by saying the person they’re envious of is “too full of themselves” or “spoilt” but you can always tell when it’s about envy. There are a lot of Mumsnet posts where it’s really obvious that the poster is bitter/resentful of the person they’re moaning about because they’re lucky or beautiful or wealthy or has successful kids or something.

Like I say, it’s not just women and it’s not the root of all or even most conflict, but we’d be very naive to say it’s not something that ever happens. It does happen.

I also think that people looking in from the outside are often better able to spot it than the person who is actually the object of the envy. I had a very difficult colleague once and when I was talking to my work friend about a weird incident with that colleague and I said “I don’t expect to be liked by everyone or but she seems to have a really specific issue with me and I just don’t know what it is. If I’ve upset her, I wish I knew how and I’d apologise”. And my friend said “Oh, it’s bloody obvious, leveryone in the office has noticed that she basically just wants to be you. She’s really competitive and always wants to be better than you, and I think it really annoys her that you either haven’t noticed or don’t care.”

To me, this seemed insane. I am not especially successful, not especially attractive and basically nothing special. But I’m also the least needy person ever. I don’t care much about having other people’s attention. And I’m fairly at ease with myself; I don’t feel the need to impress. And apparently that was what annoyed her.

Lots of internalised misogyny as others have noted. Most bullying at work I experienced has come from other women who held grudges for years for perceived slights etc.

Not always jealously.

MIL competes with other women over bizarre things. I took many things personally till I finally realised it was her default - people judge better are fawned over and have to do drastic things to every be judged bad.

I think it's internalised misogyny. DH says it's common behavior round his way and see it more as not getting above yourself (crab bucket) behavior. Seen flashes of similar with some school mums and very much so in last place we lived - many people there put on airs and graces and put other down whole place had massive chips on shoulders.

It's not jealously or even very personal it's like they are trying to construct a hierarchy and slot you in it.

Other times women are indifferent till you can benefit them or actively nasty just because they can be - and I've met men who are exactly the same.

It’s sexist bullshit. Some people you get on with and some you don’t. Some of the ‘bitchiest’ people I have come across in work Eg have been men undermining other men, but more often women, to get ahead. But it’s not called that when it’s men, it’s called being ambitious.