Fall out with Grandson

@Bellaboo01

Fighting with Grandma can't be brushed under the carpet.
Here you go again... "fighting with" is a phrase that implies they are equally aggressors.

He didn't have a fight with her.

He attacked her and she responded with self defence.

He punched a woman in the stomach and as a reflex, due to her fight or flight instinct, without malice or anger etc, she defended herself by slapping her assailant.

That is not a fight.

It is not meeting violence with violence.

Interested as mentioned to know at what point n an attack it is acceptable for the victim to defend themselves using violence. One punch isn't enough in your opinion. Two punches? Three? When blood is drawn?

Fighting with?

He assaulted her.

The 15 yr old who punched me in the stomach at work precipitated a miscarriage. I was trying to keep away from him and trying to protect my stomach.

An idiot from SACRO tried to persuade me to have a restorative meeting with the thug.

it’s just dawned on me that the other three victims - a teen male and two men - were not asked to meet.

Youth workers obviously think that women are mugs.

Your responses suggest that your mindset is the same.

@User8646382 Absolutely spot on! Social workers, as a general rule, aren't fit to do the job. You only have to look at the myriad abuse cases where the child died, even after being checked on. And who were they let down by? The wooly hat brigade, as my dear colleague once said! And they always have an excuse - they didn't answer the door; the child was covered in chocolate; we can only do so much...
I have absolutely no faith in the social service system in the UK at all. We all know the sort, the "knit your own veg, grow your own yogurt" types. Most of them single virgins and living with an elderly parent. No clue about vulnerable children or family dynamics.
(And before anyone chelps up about my description of social workers, I have had many dealings with them in my working life and they were virtually all as I've described!)

I honestly don't care if i am pissing you off.

I wouldnt hit a child who was in my care. EVER. FULLSTOP!

I am also not defending the child as clearly he needs help. The receiving (or not) of a birthday present here is the least of the issue. Fighting with Grandma can't be brushed under the carpet.

Two of our parents tried to have one of my colleagues charged with assault.

Colleague was unusually short. 15 yr old punched him. Colleague stretched out a hand to block the second punch.

In Scotland, children under 16 are seen by the Children’s Panel normally, not court.

My colleague was suspended, even though police said he hasd no case to answer.

The parents phoned a tabloid and he was doorstepped. Pic of him at his door all over the front page of a Sunday Paper.

Eventually allowed back to work but quit at the end of the academic year.

When the boy turned 16, police arrested him for taking cars without consent.

@LadySmurf
"How are male violence apologists captured 🤔 then"?

I wonder then

@Bellaboo01

Here we go again 🙄 with you and the rest of the other like minded male violence apologists excuser's for this type of thing

Is it a wonder violent teenage males and violent toxic abusive child men don't respect women and girls,

When we have individuals like yourself mimising and justifying and excusing a grandson punching his grandmother in the stomach ????

why is your brain power extremly limited in capacity to work effectively?

We have another male violence apologist on here again = male violence down player excuser for it enabler
Never mind @LadySmurf teenage grandson who could have the physique strength of young man and even if he has not,

You still insist on being judgemental about @LadySmurf action,
It's natural to want to protect yourself and also knee jerk reaction too,

Even the law of UK you are allowed to defend yourself protect oneself physically,

and by age 10 years you are consirdered to be aware enough in UK Law to know the difference between right and wrong,

Unless you are perceived to be mentally deficient faculties,
Which there is no evidence whatever on this mumsnet thread at all..

How would you have reacted if someone or a teenage male member of family punched your grandmother?

I suspose you would appease him give him placating peace offering 🫴 in some way and carry on with happy families charade ect

No she is not talking rubbish. Lots of people have said the same thing throughout the thread. In what circumstances would you deem it 'acceptable' for women to strike out/ retaliate/defend themselves against male violence? Never?

So @Bellaboo01 say if the grandmother punches her grandson in the stomach after verbally abusing and he slaps her back that’s wrong is it? Well it is but I wouldn’t blame him for doing so.

This is a grandmother who’s taken both grandsons out, paid for them for the day and then had them stay on a sleepover. Yes, probably the teenager (14) might not be pleased with all this but his words and behaviour are out of order. Even more so as his older relative is looking after him and treating him.

@Bellaboo01

Keen to know your answer to mine and previous posters question - when could the grandma in question have used physical force to respond to being punched in the stomach by her teenage grandson? He punched her once and you say her reflexive slap was meeting violence with violence.

If he had punched her three times and she slapped him trying to get him to stop, would that have been acceptable? Or still meeting violence with violence?

What about if the grandfather had walked in on his wife being punched in the stomach, would it be unacceptable for him to use physical force to try to stop the grandson attacking his grandma?

A visceral, self defensive reflex to being attacked is not the same as an attack.

So I'm interested in your thoughts on the above.

If her grandson hadn't stopped, even if she got to her phone to call the police, at what point would it be acceptable for her to have attempted to fight back in order to get safe?

Bellaboo you sound almost identical to the poster who posted that awful reply and coincidentally that person also claimed to work with children. Both usernames names have Bella in them coincidence?

Well thank God for that at least.

The thinking you display in your posts is potentially very dangerous and damaging. As well as victim blaming. 'Responding to violence with violence' when all the violent intent was clearly only on one side?

I really have heard it all. What a deeply depressing thread this is.

@User8646382 Thanks so much for saying it and probably explains why @Bellaboo01 keeps seeing so many of these type behaviors repeated. A smack in time save nine

@Bellaboo01 feignging shock at "hitting a child" is ridicuous in this instance. This isn't a little boy slapped for tantrumming, this is a male well on their way to full male, adult strength, who has taken that strenth and punched an older female relative in the stomach. An instinctive, reactive slap is nothing.

You're so keen to be right-on about "not hitting children" that you've just completely minimised quite serious male violence. You should be very ashamed.

@Bellaboo01 is obviously a social worker. You can spot them a mile off - they are hopelessly naive and disconnected from reality. Very, very dangerous actually.

I’m sure most of us think deep down that a few more slaps to this kid’s bare backside at an earlier age would have made all the difference. It’s just not the done thing to say it on here. LOL.

I'm not raising sons!! What makes you think that i am

Bellaboo, I hope you are not raising anyone. Your thinking is just as dangerous to girls or boys.
You are part of the problem.
Of course, we give leeway to those who mentally cannot understand, that is an entirely different matter to a boy in a teenage strop.

Who started this 'responding to violence with violence is not the correct way'?

It’s been a gradual insidious mantra that has crept in over the past few decades. In schools, the child who hits back is told that they’re “just as bad” as their attacker because they joined in.

Those who espouse this nonsense seem to think that a sage and somber announcement of “Violence should never be met with violence” speaks for itself and requires no explanation or justification. It’s bollocks.

So if I am violently attacked, I cannot defend myself with violence, @Bellaboo01? What do you suggest I do - ask him nicely to stop attacking me?

How can anyone argue that the grandmother, who was punched in the stomach by a 14 year old boy, is as much in the wrong as he is?

@Bellaboo01

Are you honestly saying that if one of the vulnerable teens (a girl, let's say) you have previously cared for came to you and said they had been punched in the stomach by a vulnerable teen boy and as a reflex, without thinking or planning, they slapped him, you would tell her that violence is violence and she was morally wrong to do so?

You wouldn't explain that her reaction was self defence and something that is a fight or flight self preservation response to being attacked?

You wouldn't explain that she couldn't have known if he would continue punching her in the stomach and that her reaction was her body attempting to defend itself?

Again, it's concerning you have cared for vulnerable people (of any age) with such black and white thinking and lack of ability to consider the nuance of situations.

Another question for you - after how many punches to the stomach by their teenage grandson is it ok for a grandma to hit back in self defence? Or is it never ok and they should just accept their fate and be assaulted until the assailant decides to stop?

Bellaboo, I am trying to be nice here. Even though you are pissing me off.

You do not know how you would have reacted to a 14 year old male relative punching you in the stomach.
Quite agree you may have frozen, as would many people faced with violence from a loved one, and done nothing.
On the other hand, you may have hit him - hard.
Who started this 'responding to violence with violence is not the correct way'?
If a 14 year old youth attacks me, I reserve the right to hit back - harder.

@Bellaboo01

I said i done agree with responding to Violence WITH Violence!

Fight or flight, non emotional, reflexive reactions are not the same category of violence though. Nowhere close.

The boy's action was purposeful, he was the aggressor, he hit to hurt in anger.

The grandma's action was a physical reflex, an immediate, visceral response with no thought or emotion behind it, just a panicked attempt at self defence. It's inbuilt into us as animals to respond that way when under attack.

The fact you're treating them as six of one, half a dozen of the other is bizarre. Even more so if you work with vulnerable people.

You don't know my views or what my experiences are.

I said i done agree with responding to Violence WITH Violence!

In the eyes of the law a fourteen year old boy is old enough to be held legally accountable for his actions. A punch to the stomach from a boy of this age to an older lady (or to anyone else for that matter) could have resulted in severe damage. The OP’s response wasn’t a matter of violence but a fight or flight response that’s inbuilt into us all. The thought that you would take the side of a violent boy who has just assaulted a woman is concerning on so many levels I don’t know where to start. As a poster upthread pointed out, his brother was present, and he chose to hit the person he perceived as weaker. This is an abuser in the making and if it’s not dealt with swiftly and severely, he’ll be a potential danger to every woman he encounters.

If you have ever been unlucky enough to be really punched in the stomach by a man, you may just understand the visceral reaction.

The majority of 14 year old boys here tower over me and the shock and pain of that happening would be no different to that of a grown man punching me.

In normal circumstances, I would agree that hitting children is wrong.

However, so is hitting your grandmother.

It is telling that he, as @Theunamedcat said, chose to hit the woman instead of his brother.

Nice that he chose the person he perceived to be weakest or wouldn’t fight back.

And he did choose.

I said “could” 🙄; and was elaborating on a PPs post that it was worrying that someone with your views COULD be raising sons. We know nothing about you, but MUMSNET does tend to attract mothers.