AIBU to date a man that my close friend has dated?

It is a zombie thread. Wonder what happened...

ZOMBIE THREAD

This is from last May.

OP if anything I think you might be being overly mindful of Amy's feelings here. Yes, girl code is drummed into all of us and rightfully so, sisters before misters and all of that but when you find yourself checking whether men have gone on a handful of dates with Amy off the bat then it seems, for whatever reason, you're giving disproportionate prominence to her feelings in your life. And you say she hasn't given you a reason to feel like this - I presume no dramatic centre-of-attention stuff when she's not getting her own way etc - so there's a people-pleasing element in yourself you may have to work on. You're second-guessing what Amy will think and restricting yourself based on that (not on reality).

In this situation, if I was Amy I would want you to go on the date. I might well still be hurt that Daniel wasn't into me, but I'd recognise that's just part of life and it doesn't mean he's off-limit to my friends. That's how a reasonable friend would think. That might well be how Amy will react. You're afraid she'll react irrationally and nastily - I would say you should do her the honour of assuming she'll react like a normal human being.

Go on the date and put yourself first for once.

This. I wouldn’t go on any dates first if you want to remain friends with her or keep the friendship as it is, as she won’t trust you. You know she had/has strong feelings for him but was rejected. That’s not your fault but presumably she cried on your shoulder, figuratively if not literally, and you comforted her. To then go on a date/dates behind her back (that’s what you’d be doing if you deliberately don’t tell her) will alter her perception of you and your relationship with her. She’d be feeling that even though you know how much pain her feelings towards Daniel were or are, you’re putting yourself and his interests first, even though you’ve known her longer and it sounds like you have a strong bond. It will clarify what a lot of ppl don’t like to think about, that is, that given the choice between a friend and a potential partner, a lot of ppl would opt for a partner, as it entails more benefit to them, to put it clinically.

You have to decide whether it’s worth the risk - a long term relationship, potential family, security - over the love, strong friendship and support of a close friend. She’ll have thought she had your support (and loyalty) but this is where the murky waters of friendship vs relationships begin. You’d be gambling on this potential relationship working out and could lose the friendship and all the positives that entails. You don’t have to look very far in the relationships section of this forum to see that a lot of women are upset they don’t have many, if any real friends - they’re viewed by many as precious and worth their weight in gold.

On the other hand your friend may already be lining up her next dates and be over it by now - altho if I were in her position I’d also be wanting to try and get over the heartbreak - it’s called rebounding- which can lead to awful results as your standards perhaps lower to replace the object of your affection by attempting to distract yourself with someone you might previously not consider .

Just think of it this way - if you and Daniel went out on a few ‘secret’ dates, then decided to make it official - how do you think your friend will respond? If she’s nice and puts others first she will outwardly be happy for you but inside you can be guaranteed her heart will be breaking that two ppl she cared about are hurting her like this. People, especially women can be very good at masking their emotions. Whenever you attend social meet ups together she has to watch as you show your affection towards one another, if you meet up alone, you will have to withhold information about large parts of your life for fear of hurting her, or share all the fun romantic things you are doing together, knowing she will have most likely pictured doing these with him herself. How would you feel? I guess it depends on whether you’re the type of person who actually doesn’t care or even enjoys doing this to someone or not.

Ultimately you have no guarantee Daniel will treat you much better than your friend. If he hadn’t had to go away, it’s likely he and your find would also have gone on dates and perhaps further. It doesn’t guarantee it would have worked, but the potential was there - illustrated by the frequency of their communication and their flirting with one another etc.

If you go out with him your friend may withdraw and forever think of you differently and Daniel could lose interest and flit to the next woman - I guess nobody knows.

It’s all down to what and who you value more.

’’My friend is kind and will tell me it’s fine. But I think she will still be hurt.’’

For me, that’s your answer. I wouldn’t want to risk hurting my friend. Also, I’d feel a bit weird dating someone my friend had sexted. What if you end up serious and doing joint activities with her in the future - wouldn’t that play on your mind?

Also I’m struggling to envisage what kind of community you live in where you seem so sure that your friend has dated every eligible man - do you live in the outer Hebrides or something? If internet dating could you just set your search area wider or something? I know so many people who’ve met partners in different areas - if the connection is there you find a way for it to work out!

I wouldn't

With the greatest of respect to Amy; Daniel is just not into her.

Amy does not 'own' Daniel - they had a few deep conversations that Amy liked but they didn't lead to anything.

If the pool of men is small and Amy dates a lot, then of course the venn diagram circle of men not dated by Amy will be small. There will also be a big overlap with 'dated Amy' and potential suitors.

@stepfordblanket had a good way of steering the conversation. Do not ask for 'permission,' you are doing nothing wrong.

We've all been in the unrequited feelings scenario before, it's shit but you get over it eventually.

Please don't refuse to date Daniel due to Amy's past chats. He sounds like a nice person and you both get on with each other. It's definitely worth going out for a wine / coffee to see if it could lead somewhere.

She's got the right to feel anything. The issue is the OP doesn't want to tread on toes, not whether Daniel or Amy are being unreasonable.

OMG just talk to your friend. "Amy, I met that chap you were dating, Daniel? He's asked me out on a date. I'm thinking of going. What do you reckon?"

Easy. If she feels it would be a dreadful betrayal of your friendship, I'm sure she'll let you know.

However, I would be cautious about him. He was happy to get 'deep' and sexual with your friend before telling her he wasn't ready to date. What has changed in his life that he's now ready to date? Is he actually looking for a relationship? Go on the date, and ask him about all this stuff.

@BettyBardMacDonald come on. Why are you surprised. This is MN after all. A man can't behave like any normal human being without being condemned on here.

I agree with you. They flirted. They tested the water online. It was not for him in a relationship sense so he told her he just wanted to remain friends. No part of that is leading on or deceitful. He didn't shag and dump. He could easily have met up with her and hit his jollies and then said he didn't want anything with her. It he didn't.

Otherwise, like you say, we would be welded on to the first person we had any interest in

I did ead your replies, yes, and they all sound like you want her blessing at some point.ime example:

She’s not an unreasonable person so I think it would be a sensible discussion to outline our thoughts and boundaries on how that might play out hypothetically.

Like I said, I'm not judging you, but you do have to make a decision. I don't think it's going to be better for her if you keep in touch with him for six months, albeit at arms length, and then tell her you're into him. She might not, as you hope, find someone else in that time.

All I'm saying is that it's your decision but you do have to make a decision. Now is better than 6 months time.

"leading on" in what way? Does he owe her something because they sexted from afar? If that were the case, there'd be no brief relationships or one-night stands. Everyone would be melded to the first person they have a deep talk or flirtation with. (Nightmare scenario)

Did he make any promises or extract any promises from Amy? If not, they were two adults engaged in consensual pleasure. No strings attached and Amy has no right to feel "led on."

Depends on the nature of the messages. I have men friends that I message. No one is leading anyone on. He was abroad. She kept messaging him. They were 'friend' type messages by the sounds of things as he said he didn't want to move to anything other than friendship. I don't see yes done anything wrong. He didn't shag her and then dump her. They chatted online like millions of people do daily. They never even went on a date when he cake back to the UK. It sounds like he was never interested and didn't make a whole lot of suggestion that he was

Totally agree with this.

I've been wondering why all the shade at Daniel. So they had a few deep talks and some digital flirtation. He didn't swear undying love and then leave Amy at the altar. Lots of adults have brief, intense connections and manage to move on without trauma.

Considering him off limits because of some chats and texts is just bizarre to me. Especially since she's moved on to dating multiple other people.

They got quite deep emotionally and also "sexted", according to OP. Presuming this is a man also in his late 30's, I'd call that leading someone on, yes.

I think this is a good approach. This way, OP isn't asking for permission (which she doesn't have to anyway) while also giving Amy a heads up AND allowing for a conversation about how to deal with this going forward IF Amy objects in anyway.

Ideally it would go like this:

OP: Daniel asked me out and I wanted to double check nothing's happening between you before I accept.
Amy: No we're not dating. Have fun!

Or if Amy objects:

OP: Daniel asked me out and I wanted to double check nothing's happening between you before I accept.
Amy: You can't see Daniel!
OP: Why not?
Amy: I still have feelings for him.
OP: But you've seen x, y and z since then. You date faster than me. I can't just write off everyone you may or may not have 'dated' in the past. I wouldn't expect you to pass up someone because I've dated them previously. There's not an endless supply of men. Maybe we need to discuss how to manage this sort of scenario going forward?

(Obviously all worded in a more unstilted way!)

Did he lead her on? They met at a party. He left the country for work. They kept in touch. It turned into nothing as he wasn't really feeling it.
Where in that was he doing anything wrong?

I would tell her that you rarely date or feel you meet someone who has so much potential.

What clinched it for me is that she has already dated most single men in your area. I think that piece of information makes it a different situation for you, compared to if you lived in a large city.

She might be hurt about him now being ready to date, and I hope it won't hurt your friendship too much.

The other thing that has just occurred to me is that this never used to be a “thing”; in the days when only an engagement or marriage cemented a serious relationship, people would often “date” in that way, without it implying anything serious at all. For example, my FIL will often joke about the fact that he took my MIL’s sister on a couple of dates before he got involved with MIL. That would mean that they went to the cinema a couple of times - no sense of anything wrong with that or that it meant anything more than that. In my day, if someone asked you out, after two or three dates you would probably consider yourself to be an item and would be mightily hacked off if that person was dating someone else at the same time. Buy online dating has meant a more scattergun, probably more casual, approach to the whole thing. It’s kind that you’re so mindful of Amy’s feelings, but I do think you’re taking a rather extreme position. And I speak from experience: that kind of meaningful connection doesn’t come along very often. If you think you might have found it, I think you would be foolish to pass it up.

Whatever the ins and outs of it, just ask her. It may even help her.

I was Amy with one guy - I was really into him, we actually went on a few dates, and he was always messaging me. But my situation didn't suit him, and so he called it off.

About a month later, my best friend asked me if I'd be ok if she dated him. I said yes, of course, even though I was a bit hurt at the thought of them together. But it got me thinking - it was really something and nothing between us.

He and my friend got quite serious, and honestly, my goodness, it showed me I'd missed NOTHING! He messed her about for a good 6 months and was totally unavailable. Bullet dodged!

Now maybe this guy will turn out to be different - but either way, it can help your friend move on. I'd have genuinely been delighted if they'd ended up together, once I'd dwelled on it a bit and got my head around it.

Re-read the way you describe Amy - you describe her in quite derogatory terms

You do not seem to value her at all - you describe her like a trollop, so yeah go out with him and ruin your friendship

Do not let this chance of happiness pass you by.

He wasn't for her.

Maybe he's for you. You'll never know. Don't live a life of regret. Wondering if.
Take your chances of happiness.
She liked him, but they never dated.

If you read this in a book you'd be thinking what a silly story line. The friend ie YOU is too nice!'

Too nice never gets you anywhere. No good deed goes unpunished.

I totally get why you might not want to jeopardise your friendship with Amy. And I agree with what you and others have said, it's possible Amy may be hurt by this, based on how you have described her and the situation.

However, I'm not convinced that's a sufficient reason not to pursue this, and you also need to consider your own feelings, not just Amy's.

By not pursuing this, YOU are being hurt - you have described feeling resentful of Amy's monopoly on men in your area above.

Yes, it's unfortunate Daniel is this particular guy and not one of the other men Amy has made connections with over the past few months. But, you can't help who you're attracted to and, as you say, connections like this for you are not common. Again, it's not as if they are exes or dated.

If Amy is a true friend, then she should ultimately be able to come through the other side and be happy for you if this turns out to be the guy for you. You have described her previously as "not unreasonable". I agree with @RedRobyn2021, you should say this previous post to Amy. Be brave :)