AIBU to feel sad about how the internet's turned out?

In fact - teaching about online safety is much higher than it was when I started online

Adults now are aware of the Internet and the dangers. More parents are aware and check their children's phones, know what to look out for etc. New worries are also easily communicated via the Internet to parents about what to watch out for

When I was a kid online, we didn't have Internet safety lessons, it wasn't taught in schools or clubs. We had unfiltered access to everything online and no-one was talking about what to look out for, what to be aware of, that porn was right there, that men would send dick pics and ask for pics and that you shouldn't lie about you age online.

Those of us who grew up lying about our ages know how dangerous and stupid that was and are advising our children about why they shouldn't do it etc

It is what you make it. I remember when I was a kid I often had to get a bus to the library to look up things I was interested in. Now I have access to the entirety of all human knowledge on a small device in my pocket. The downside is that device also gives access to the entirety of all human stupidity as well. The trick is to focus on the signal and avoid as much of the noise as possible. That's down to the individual.

I love the internet. I love being able to look things up so easily. I'm currently learning a language which I'd struggle to using books. I'm a huge reader but love reading online.

I wish more could be done to stop the scammers and the evil shite that's out there. Social media companies need to be doing an awful lot more than they are.

No, I was lamenting the loss of the forums that existed in those days, and the possibilities for the sorts of productive discussions that could be had.

For instance, anything and I do mean anything that you read on MN or elsewhere about NPD/narcissism - all the terminology, all the lore, all the books that have come out since and have popularised the terminology - was drawn from a particular forum where those terms originated: flying monkeys, grey rock, etc etc etc.

Those sorts of early days chatrooms and forums have gone; you can't even find them on the wayback machine. They have been replaced with other sorts, but it is not the same. Here I am on one now.

Sorry, YABU. It's bloody great all you have to do is filter out the crap. Same way as nobody reads the pages of adverts in a newspaper or magazine.

I am still a member of numerous on-line groups with loads of fascinating stuff and there are still Youtube channels which aren't run by desperate wannabe "influencers".

You need a better quality crap filter OP, that's all,

But that is exactly what you said! 😂

Oh, dear. Kind of making my point for me, really.

Yeah I think large corporations monopolising and monetising the web; the rise of algorithms, ubiquitous data mining and now AI; and the decline in quality and neutrality of the search engines, all served to destroy a lot of what made the early web have such potential.

I miss the early(ish, I'm talking about early 2000s) web too. It was so much more fun and interesting, I agree. But it was dangerous and gross and facilitated awful abuse and radicalisation even back then (I remember the 'Is Anybody Up' saga, I think that was what it was called, and unregulated 'thinspo' eating disorder communities populated mostly by teenager girls). The failure of governments worldwide and the big companies to tackle the growth of child sexual abuse imagery, bullying and radicalising extreme harmful rhetoric has been there from the beginning.

I think it's got to the point where it's easy to take the good stuff for granted and be really aware of all the crap and the really bad stuff.

Personally I think childhood would be better without it - but as an adult it makes life so much easier and better. Internet banking, online shopping, reading reviews before you book a holiday, keeping in touch with people where ever they are etc.

I used it mid 90s for studying and emails. Then it seemed just like a fancy database. We had a lecture at uni on the potential dangers of it, which at the time seemed ludicrous to me.

I have to say that in 1997 when we first got the internet in our house, there were plenty of people online sending dick pics through ICQ and we had Ask Jeeves, Joe Cartoon came about in 1998 so we were all putting virtual cartoon hamsters in the microwave and a frog in a blender. Porn was abundant, as were sex chat rooms. It's always been the best of things and the worst of things.

Yes there's lots of bad stuff, but the good stuff hasn't gone away - there's immeasurably more of it, in fact.

Or only people from rich developed countries. Now even people from rural India can access the Internet to find out how to get a Covid vaccine. The horror!

We should go back to the good old days when only certain people had access to discuss metaphysics.

The internet was a big money pit back in the day. The original network was built and paid for by academia.

Now it's vastly bigger. A global infrastructure of high capacity communication links, data centres and the people to operate it doesn't come cheap. And all the websites can't be operated by some bloke called Gavin who does it in his spare time with people contributing free content forever. The ads and all the other commercial aspects pay for all that, so that you can piggyback on it for all the other nice things it provides mostly for 'free'.

All the other problems you cite are just holding up a mirror to society. Nothing really to do with the internet itself.

Yes, wasn't everything better when it was for proper people like us and not ordinary people like them.

I like it more now - I like the special interest groups eg on Facebook I follow groups that are into creating certain types of art, for the type of pet that we have, music groups for bands i like, you can find instructions and advice to do anything on you tube- from art techniques to diy, fixing anything. Podcasts for anything you are interested.in, films, music, art, science discussions, debate, games from chess to big gamer type games to daft puzzle games.sports if that's your thing. And I enjoy shopping and organising trips etc on the Internet.

I think comments like the OP's are a bit like shouting 'burn all the books' because Playboy and Loaded exist.

As someone said, don't scroll, actively search for what you're interested in. Plenty of healthy debate out there. Also instant bank account checking, working from home, emails, academic journals, current affairs, shopping, education. All available at the click of a browser.

The internet was an opportunity to better ourselves and while there are good things in there, it mostly just brought out the worst in our species rather than the best. Depressing, as it's like every amazing opportunity humanity has to be better, we just fall short.

There's a certain irony of using MN to say the Internet is bad.... already we've had one veiled transphobic message for example. Whereas the Internet has done wonders for helping LGBT children understand who they are and give them support, especially when they live in communities where it isn't safe to be openly gay. It's given them a space to learn about safe gay/lesbian sex because this is a topic which isn't taught in schools but there are other measures for safe sex (beyond penetrative sex) that they need to be aware of.

It gives people access to things they can't access locally - yes the Internet can be censored but so are libraries and newspapers. American schools, for example, take books out of schools all the time for being "unsuitable" just because they don't align with their values. The Internet gives a much freer access to these books (things as banal as Harry Potter sometimes!)

There's a lot of fake news out there but there's also a lot of learning and information about topics most people would never look at otherwise. Tutorials for specialist topics and interests. The ability for people to teach themselves crafts and skills because the videos are right there.

You can access shows which were shown once on TV and would never have been seen again but someone discovers it, starts talking about it and suddenly it's popular again. Streaming services are ridiculous in their number but you can discover some forgotten gems, relive old favourites.

And those "intelligent" discussion? Still happen. About everything from Shakespeare to Doctor Who. You just need to know where to look.

The Internet is like all things, useful if you use it properly.

Speak for yourself

I think it’s much the same good/bad wise just bigger, there’s plenty of lovely spaces with people just discussing things that interest them or hobbies and back in the day there was still troll sites and hate filled sites.

I still think it's a truly amazing information and cultural exchange. I think there are plenty of intelligent people on it. I think MN is amazing, too. I discuss lots of specialist topics right here. In the What We are Reading forum, for instance.

You’re not wrong about the optimism and shared information of the early years of getting online, OP.

A hopeful and open-hearted time - I talked to many of my favourite authors back when having a website was rare and they had time to actively engage with readers online.

Judy Blume sent me a message when my first child was born, for heaven’s sake. I was swapping secondhand CDs with a crime writer I read.

The rule of the internet is that anywhere where what you see is curated by an algorithm optimised to drive clicks is going to make you feel sad, angry, powerless, depressed… because that’s the content you click on, so most of the content is like that, and so you feel it’s all consuming.

Also, those same algorithms are grouping you with people who like what you like, you’re all seeing the same stuff, forming and reinforcing the same opinions and compounding the problem. This is what happens when your main economic driver is advertising.

The trick is to find places that are uncurated, or at least curated by humans and not by statistics. Reddit is good (if you find the groups you’re interested in and not the horrid toxic ones); old style forums for niche interests are great, but tend to be a bit untrafficked. Facebook groups for your interests are great; just avoid the infinite scroll.

Another great trick is to search, not scroll. The scroll is pure poison. If you use searches then you still get an auto selection, but at least it’s a selection in your interest area.