To think Brits dislike success?

And I didn’t say otherwise. You’re trying to force the narrative that saying a high earner works hard is somehow saying that a lower earner doesn’t, and that the higher earner isn’t actually working hard.

Neither are true.

Much of the ‘hard work’ for people who don’t have those contacts is developing that network, is assimilation into an area of work which is totally out of their comfort zone having not grown up with those references or knowledge of that world. There are loads of examples of that and they aren’t just in finance, working at the BBC in broadcasting is evidently similar- nearly all the political editors have gone to private school, well known ones and Oxbridge, if you look at their family connections they are used to that world.

Having said that, the fact that you were able to pass the exams in order to further yourself is initself quite lucky.

So the poster that you responded to:

Started working at 10

Had to self teach because they were not being taught in school

Had 3 jobs to support themselves at Uni.

Then worked hard for a professional qualification

Your take from all that is 'you were lucky'.

I’m not trying to take away your achievement, but just to understand that even with all the will and want in the world, some people would still not be able to achieve what you have.

Yes you are. That poster worked hard and you belittle it as luck. What the actual fuck!

This mindset right here is exactly what is wrong with this country. Its like a disease that breeds resentment that others would dare drag themselves towards any form of stability no matter how fragile. Why can't you be happy for that they are not wallowing in the self pity that many others are, bleating about how they are entitled the fruits of the labour of the the hard work of others.

Some people may never be able to achieve what that poster did but many others could do that and more.

Nobody is saying the person doesn't have to make effort/work hard, but they have to be given the opportunity to do that.

For countries with high income inequality, more of the total national income is held by a small number of people. It’s therefore basic maths that a small number of people will provide a large % of income from taxation as a small number of people hold a large % of the total national income. If income inequality is lowered then this won’t be the case.

I don't think you're right.

It all depends on how you measure success, doesn't it? For too many people it seems to be 'Has loads of money = success'. And so people who have been born into money, comfort and privilege are seen as successful when in fact they have done nothing but get lucky. By the same token a young person coming from a hugely difficult background with zero opportunity, an unsupportive and/or abusive family and a nice helping of autism/dyslexia/mental ill health who works their arse off, gets decent GCSEs and ends up living a stable happy life with a decent job that makes ends meet is not seen as a success - when they have had to work so much harder to get where they are.

I know which one I admire more.

Just as well I didn’t deny it then, isn’t it?

‘Contacts’ are a thing everywhere, and always have been. Ironically enough getting access to the elite schools/universities/jobs very much depended on contacts in the countries my parents were raised in. Both Communist ones, incidentally.

How do you know the private school kid has more privilege than a state school child? It's not black and white.

Did I say that? No. I have no problem acknowledging that. What I am saying is that a person still needs to work hard even with those advantages.

Well this is why I added the line, ‘this is not to say anyone could do it’. To deny ‘Contacts’ is not a thing in Britain and the immeasurable opportunities that brings is insulting to peoples’ intelligence.

I think it’s an advantage but you don’t buy exam grades - that’s pure work.

Exam grades are purely the result of the work put in by the student?! No they are definitely not. They are the combined result of the intelligence/natural aptitude of the student, the quality of the teaching and the amount of support they get... and the student's effort. And the amount of work the student is actually able to manage will also be affected by things beyond their control. For example, I don't think my Y11 student who is a young carer for her disabled parent will have managed to do as much revision (or indeed homework over the past 5 years) as most of her classmates.

You don't see that 'getting a foot in the door' is a privilege some people won't get? Some people don't even get the opportunity to show their worth.

Brits might not pretend to celebrate success as much as Americans, but comparing to some other nations Brits are proper cheerleaders 😂

I am Scottish born and bred.
I don't recognise any of this.
We celebrate success in many ways, however we also recognise aspects of someone's life which make it potentially more likely that they might be successful. Success can also be measured in different ways, not just in terms of financially and having stuff!

Are we just falling back on lazy stereotypes now?
‘Contacts’ only get someone so far, and contacts aren’t going to get them anywhere if they’re lacking in either education or experience in the relevant field. ‘Contacts’ may get someone a foot in the door, but that person needs to actually prove their worth.

Then why did you feel the need to comment on American politics and "attitudes"?

is your point that these are the typical characteristics of British people and they are driving out Wealthy British people or are you referring to wealth created by non British people that are leaving? Wealthy British people who are upper class are definitely not leaving, this isn’t the case now and it wasn’t in the past.

Nope, I haven't 'almost proved' your point.

I was an immigrant in the UK and I have noticed that attitude tbh, it’s ’if I can’t have it no one should. No one else deserves it, and if they have it they’re bad people/secretly miserable/insert class based insult here.

People who come to live here, and those of us who lived overseas, see it here. It does exist.

As a PP said, it’s not just money and success

You have money = you must have been given it, be on an old boys network, been given an advantage in life. Or, you must have sold your granny and been an awful person to achieve it.

You are clever = you are lucky. You should be grateful you were born with those brains.

You are nice looking = you must be shallow, vain. It’s not all about looks you know.

Good at sports or music = why are those DC always picked? It’s not fair. It’s not about winning. Even though little Johnny spends every Saturday and Tues night freezing his arse off in winter playing football in the local league, it’s not fair on my DC who “wants” to be in the team. Even though Sarah practices the violin for 3 hours a night till her fingers bleed, it’s not fair she’s picked for solos.

Not projecting on last one, honest 😝

You've almost proven my point.

Two threads I recall in the last year or so had subjects like:

Why are Americans such Lazy Cooks?

and

Why can't Americans speak proper English?

I see some politics and attitudes in the news from the UK that are a bit concerning too, but I don't feel the need to have a go at you all as individuals about them.

Hello Boris,
How the devil are you?

In all likelihood a Stockbroker is not going to have just worked hard though, it will be a position that is more likely to be filled by someone who has the right contacts. That isn’t to say anyone could do it but it is silly to suggest that such job appointments are just down to a meritocratic system as they are not!

Lack of work ethic, passing the buck and blaming everyone else etc. All this 'pay their fair share' rubbish with regards to wealthy people despite the wealthy people being the top 1% of taxpayers paying 30% of all taxes, that is to say around £3 in every £10 taxed to the government is taxed from just 300,000 people. As soon as the numbers come out, the idiots that complain about the rich either find other ridiculous arguments to plead poverty or they pipe down. Unfortunately, a lot of the wealthy people are leaving the country and taking jobs with them, and it's making the country a very expensive place to live.

Are you trying to say that private education isn’t a privilege? If it didn’t give kids an advantage then parents wouldn’t pay tens of thousands of pounds for something they could get for free!

I would take a state educated student with all A’s over a privately educated student as they’ve still achieved the same grades despite being disadvantaged!

Your example explains perfectly how some people, in this case your students, really are living in a bubble.

Indeed. And how easy it is to say 'Well I worked hard for my huge house and exotic holidays'. Yes, no doubt you did. And you might also be a very talented, kind and generous person. Just remember how much easier your privilege made that, and maybe wonder if you'd be in the same position now if you'd had the same level of intelligence but had a very different upbringing.

I say that as someone who had a very nice upbringing myself btw (middle class comfortable, not very wealthy). I guess my (not particularly well-paid) job is one where I see every day the obstacles some people face (I no longer work in a private school!), so it's pretty obvious to me.