To think that improving state schools needs people to pay an e.g. a state school tax?

I would have agreed it’s unfair to bring in to those already committed to privately educating. But after reading the attitudes espoused in these threads? Sympathy gone.

I also don’t think private schools should be treated as charities and, yes, state schools should be improved. I do understand though that people are concerned about disrupting children who are already in private education and wonder if there’s a way of changing things more gradually over 5 years

I don’t agree with only users of state schools paying an extra tax . Some things are a collective responsibility like health and education. Everyone pays . I do think that all public services are in a mess and, while we need to be sure that there isn’t waste in the way they are managed, we alll might need to pay more taxes. ( including pensioners of which I’m one). Some people can’t seem to get their heads round paying for stuff that they might not use as an individual but are of general benefit.

I agree with chillys comment too - I had sympathy on an individual level but the attitudes displayed on these threads by some of the private school parents is really quite astonishing. Lashing out at the 93% who use their local schools
having zero idea of what some children in those schools are dealing with. It’s embarrassing.

I wasn’t being obtuse. I was responding solely to the poster who said a previous comment was spurious. I pointed out that there were a lot of posters in this very thread that claimed the position she was denying, therefore discrediting her claim.

I didn’t make a comment on the rest of the thread here.

We get it. You don’t want pay more in fees than you’re already paying.
So don’t. Use star schools.

I can't believe that there are people walking among us holding views like this. It's nuts. A lot of this thread is nuts. Thinking people should, in essence, pay privately for education and health. Do you realise how backwards that is? That's what people did 100 years ago and lots and lots of poor people went hungry or got ill or died.

My nan was in and out of A&E like a yo-yo in the last stages of her dementia. You'd charge her? My son has a disability and probably attends A&E more than most children due to various associated conditions. You'd charge for that? Or you'd just charge the 'time wasters'? How would you justify the charge? Do you realise how much extra time, manpower and MONEY that process would absorb?

I really don't think you've thought this through properly.

Countries thrive when there is less of a gap between rich and poor. So increasing taxes would likely help the state school system - unless it was regressive like the national lottery.

If you asked state school parents to pay for school. Many would stop sending their children. Some don't see the value. Others can't afford housing and food. That's why they bought in state education in the first place.

Please don’t tar us all with the same brush. My daughter is at private school. We moved her after 2 years of bullying and social isolation in state secondary school. Waiting lists for other local state schools were full and we considered moving to different catchment areas but that would have been a huge lifestyle change for the whole family. Private school seemed the best solution.

Shes thriving - her confidence has come back and she’s accepted and well-liked. We now have to consider whether to send our son there when he’s secondary age because we don’t want them having a disparity of education.

I am anxious about the likely fee increase. We cannot risk my daughter’s emotional well-being by taking her out but I genuinely don’t know if we can afford to keep her there or send her brother there. I dearly wish it wasn’t part of labour’s manifesto but it was always going to be and it’s not going to stop me voting for them. They are still a better party to govern this country than the shitshow we’ve had for the last 14 years.

I think all I’m saying is your empathy doesn’t need to be misplaced. I want Labour in power. I’ll have to figure out a way to ensure my daughter doesn’t have to move schools. I know I’m in a privileged position to have sent her there in the first place. I know private education is not a right - it’s not something I even considered until we had faced her coming home from school sobbing week after week. But I’m a little scared about what comes next for my family.

My children go to private school. But I have watched these threads in astonishment. Endless streams of posters claiming everyone whose children are at state school should be in a mad panic because there will be a massive exodus from private school because noone can afford the fees. And yet the next post will tell us how all the private school parents are paying a huge marginal tax rate and state school parents are just envious of our wealth.

Then there are the equally unpleasant posts claiming all the independent school children will use up all the grammar school places. Ignoring the fact going to independent school isn't a mark of intelligence

In all reality, some children will leave private (but their parents finances must have been on a knife edge anyway), some parents will have to tighten their belts a bit (well, that's just life) and the rest of us will grit our teeth and put a bit less away in savings.

Maybe it's my job, that brings me up close to real struggles. Maybe it's the time I was homeless with toddlers. Either way, the fear mongering feels embarrassing and manipulative.

I get that it's crap for a small section on an individual level for those children who will have to leave. But if family finances were that precarious there may be some silver linings. (I went to private school for a while then chose to move to the state secondary and while my parents would have preferred me to stay in private I think in the long run we all enjoyed the better holidays and chance to do more hobbies- and I still went to Oxford and got a first and a career I love).

in reality for most parents it either won't really have an impact or will just mean cheaper holidays or smaller savings accounts. So the threats of 50 children in a state school class and similar fear mongering are just silly.

Honestly.. there's no need to be so obtuse. The parents for whom the extra 20% will make it unaffordable are understandably anxious and start threads or make comments on other threads to that effect. Hopefully, you are decent enough to abstain from minimising their valid concerns for their children.
We can expect to hear little on this or any forum from the very wealthy parents who perharps won't even notice the extra 20%. They are hardly likely to start any thread or comment on something they barely notice.
And then there's those in the middle who will notice but who have the means and determination to sacrifice even more to retain stability for their children. People in the middle like the OP, who has made a far more sensible and equitable proposal than the labour party leadership. Hope this helps.

I'm not really up for a policy where poor people have to watch their children die of an asthma attack that can't be controlled by their inhaler because they can't afford the A&E visit

Never mind the number of people on disability benefits rising as people end up lame because they could get a broken bone set, or permanently disabled by something that could have been treated easily

It's not exactly a useful money saving exercise. A healthy population can work more and therefore pay more taxes than an unhealthy population.

It's cost 1650 to put a child through 1 mfl GCSE. Of course when they started inexpensive group lessons for fun we didn't know this would be the case.

You can go online right now and donate straight to hospital appeals.

If nothing else, it explains why second gen Indian and Pakistani children outperform their UK counterparts. Expectation.

We pay tax toward the NHs and look at that! (NHS nurse by the way)
police. We pay for tax. Look at the state of that.
council tax (either bankruptcy or heading toward)
There’s a bit of a theme here 🤔🤨

In my experience as an Indian person. Many Indian / Pakistani origin parents of all social classes don’t care about school ratings as parental engagement will be so high there kids will get A*-As at any school. It’s often why these parents don’t like to socialise beyond their communities when their kids go to state school - they don’t trust other families / parents.

I agree OP.

in other countries, private school fee payers get rebates, not tax on top of fees.

It's people who don't have a choice. The alternatives may be oversubscribed, or miles away.

@Papyrophile not everyone has a choice. But parents with money have a much greater choice , either private or state

Why would anyone, MP or anyone else. send their child to a school they know is failing its pupils?

There seems to be a concept that more money will automatically lead to better outcomes. Nope, what leads to better outcomes is better parental engagement with both the school and with their child.

My daughters have both been in classes of about 20 as we live in a village and there just isn't 30 children in each year group wishing to attend. So the schools funding is lower as its based on an amount per child. But the education far exceeds that in their 30 child per class much better funding outstanding school attended before we move. And this is solely down to 2 things - an incredibly dedicated dynamic headteacher and staff, and a really engaged parental group, who come to every school event, help with reading, ensure really high attendance, engage with and respect the school. And it's a very mixed catchment, some high earners, some middle, but also many lowers earners (FSM rate is about 30%). Thos isn't something which can be bought.

That's why it's a luxury/non-essential service

State schools definitely need to charge. It will happen eventually.

You can't compare it with an existing VAT able item or service though because it is not the same.

For example, if I buy a watch, I have to pay VAT on it. But if I don't buy a watch, I cannot go to the government and claim one as a universal entitlement.

Arguing it is the same as any other VAT item service is not correct.