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Original poster

To think that improving state schools needs people to pay an e.g. a state school tax?

361 replies

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 13:36

What with the current hoo ha about VAT on private school and commentary about equality and privilege.. wouldn’t it make sense to vastly improve state schools? And in order to do so obviously the government needs more cash.

Isn’t it reasonable therefore to ask anyone using state schools, to pay a bit of tax for that, in order to improve all said schools from their (often) current dire state?

OP posts:
Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 17:25

MrsJackThornton · 29/05/2024 15:49

Mmmhmmm

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😂🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 17:24

MrsJackThornton · 29/05/2024 15:51

Yes because your idea of charging parents in poverty more tax because they have children in school wasn't going to widen that equality gap at all 🙄

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I’m sure if some parents couldn’t afford it there would be exemptions.

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Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 17:22

Tiredalwaystired · 29/05/2024 15:43

No it doesn’t. The ones at the bottom are already not able to access private school.

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Are they the only ones we care about? What about the ones who were in the middle and are now priced out? They could’ve gone to private but now can’t. So because some can’t do it, others shouldn’t be able to?

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crumblingschools · 29/05/2024 16:00

But I do care about state schools, especially the most disadvantaged pupils. I have volunteered in many schools for many years. This policy will not help those children. It is the only Education reform Labour have mentioned so far. It is a gimmick and will do nothing for the schools that need help.

Tiredalwaystired · 29/05/2024 15:56

crumblingschools · 29/05/2024 15:48

@Tiredalwaystired but it does, as this policy does nothing for state schools, so the Etons of this world will carry on getting more exclusive and state schools, especially those struggling and in poor areas, will carry on getting worse with diminishing funding

There’s no more going to state schools NOW. What you’re ACTUALLY complaining about is not a widening gap from top to bottom but about the middle class parents not being able to give their children a financial advantage any more. That’s fine if that’s what you mean, but don’t try and dress it up as caring about the poorest as thats completely disingenuous.

MrsJackThornton · 29/05/2024 15:51

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 15:09

So the equality gap widens. Only the particularly wealthy can afford private school. Well done Labour, bringing people in again 👏🏻

Yes because your idea of charging parents in poverty more tax because they have children in school wasn't going to widen that equality gap at all 🙄

MrsJackThornton · 29/05/2024 15:49

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 14:28

be "as a private school parent I will have to pay 20% more so I am going to throw my toys out of the pram and demand parents in extreme poverty also have to pay 20% tax"

No. Your conclusion is incorrect. Not much more I can tell you.

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Mmmhmmm

crumblingschools · 29/05/2024 15:48

@Tiredalwaystired but it does, as this policy does nothing for state schools, so the Etons of this world will carry on getting more exclusive and state schools, especially those struggling and in poor areas, will carry on getting worse with diminishing funding

Tiredalwaystired · 29/05/2024 15:43

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 15:09

So the equality gap widens. Only the particularly wealthy can afford private school. Well done Labour, bringing people in again 👏🏻

No it doesn’t. The ones at the bottom are already not able to access private school.

TheaBrandt · 29/05/2024 15:35

As a state school parent personally think it would be fairer to bring this in only for those not currently in the system. “Moving the goalposts” does seem unfair on those who have signed up to a commitment on one basis which is then changed.

Anemoi · 29/05/2024 15:31

No. State education is a public good. It should be free at the point of use for all. Any scheme like this runs the risk of children from impoverished families being excluded.

I actually pay for private school. I don’t agree with VAT being applied to that either. No idea why parents should pay twice - the school fees, plus the fact they’re not taking up the state school place they could use - whilst simultaneously in all probability paying a higher than average amount of tax.

We do need to raise more money to better fund state schools, but charging users of schools, on either sector, is not the fair way of doing it.

Pollypickpockets · 29/05/2024 15:24

FluentRubyDog · 29/05/2024 14:27

Would be even better if the current tax system stops being embezzled and avoided in favour of various crony tax havens, so all the money education is entitled to actually gets where it matters.

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What do you suggest the government does? Be specific. Because I cannot see how it can do more than it currently is to maximise the tax take.

Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 15:10

DuncinToffee · 29/05/2024 14:25

It is based on a survey by Baines Cutler, a for-profit consultancy whose entire business is providing financial advice for private schools.

For more information see this thread

https://x.com/Samfr/status/1795376680334495932

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They’re not biased at all!!

OP posts:
Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 15:09

So the equality gap widens. Only the particularly wealthy can afford private school. Well done Labour, bringing people in again 👏🏻

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crumblingschools · 29/05/2024 14:36

@Tiredalwaystired there will probably be fewer private schools to choose from then, as I am sure more will close in the next few years

crumblingschools · 29/05/2024 14:35

The Times were reporting 26% would leave in a poll in April if this policy came in, don't know who did that poll

Tiredalwaystired · 29/05/2024 14:32

The legitimate concerns around this will only affect parents for the next five years (four really, as the year 7s haven’t yet started secondary and all the primary kids will have had the chance of a natural break point). I do feel for those feeling like they may have no choice but to remove children from a school they have settled in, as those families at least have a legit reason for concern. So perhaps there will be a ramped up approach over a five year period.

After that you make the choice about private school knowing the cost you are facing (as you do now, but a bit more expensive) and make the same decision as everyone else - can I afford it or can’t I?

Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 14:30

FluentRubyDog · 29/05/2024 14:27

Would be even better if the current tax system stops being embezzled and avoided in favour of various crony tax havens, so all the money education is entitled to actually gets where it matters.

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That is very true. Agreed

OP posts:
Original poster
Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 14:28

MrsJackThornton · 29/05/2024 14:07

Most people aren't objecting to paying more tax towards education on this thread. they are objecting to the idea that only those with children in state school should pay more tax

I have no children (although my nephew currently lives with me) but I see the need for education for all so a universal increase to the tax I pay specifically for education I can understand

But your argument seems to be "as a private school parent I will have to pay 20% more so I am going to throw my toys out of the pram and demand parents in extreme poverty also have to pay 20% tax"

You are complaining about other people's entitlement but yours is palpable on this thread

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be "as a private school parent I will have to pay 20% more so I am going to throw my toys out of the pram and demand parents in extreme poverty also have to pay 20% tax"

No. Your conclusion is incorrect. Not much more I can tell you.

OP posts:
Pollipops1 · 29/05/2024 14:28

And is that survey based on VAT rises alone as fees in general have soared in recent years, add in COL, higher mortgages Im sure some can no longer afford it even before any VAT increase. Plus birth rates are surely impacting rolls as they are in state schools.

FluentRubyDog · 29/05/2024 14:27

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 13:36

What with the current hoo ha about VAT on private school and commentary about equality and privilege.. wouldn’t it make sense to vastly improve state schools? And in order to do so obviously the government needs more cash.

Isn’t it reasonable therefore to ask anyone using state schools, to pay a bit of tax for that, in order to improve all said schools from their (often) current dire state?

Would be even better if the current tax system stops being embezzled and avoided in favour of various crony tax havens, so all the money education is entitled to actually gets where it matters.

DuncinToffee · 29/05/2024 14:25

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 29/05/2024 14:00

Someone just sent me this. Couple of days old I think. Who knows how accurate it is 🤷‍♀️. Certainly not Labour. Not sure they’ve done any research at all.

It is based on a survey by Baines Cutler, a for-profit consultancy whose entire business is providing financial advice for private schools.

For more information see this thread

https://x.com/Samfr/status/1795376680334495932

Pollipops1 · 29/05/2024 14:24

So the headline is misleading then? Pretty standard for the DM

crumblingschools · 29/05/2024 14:22

@Pollipops1 it's based on a poll of parents of children at independent schools (not conducted by the Mail), so is being reported in other papers too. It does say that 40% would be over the next 5 years, but 14% would be immediately

Pollipops1 · 29/05/2024 14:11

Who knows how accurate it is not very as it’s the Daily Mail 😆