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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that improving state schools needs people to pay an e.g. a state school tax?

361 replies

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 13:36

What with the current hoo ha about VAT on private school and commentary about equality and privilege.. wouldn’t it make sense to vastly improve state schools? And in order to do so obviously the government needs more cash.

Isn’t it reasonable therefore to ask anyone using state schools, to pay a bit of tax for that, in order to improve all said schools from their (often) current dire state?

OP posts:
CuriousGeorge80 · 28/05/2024 14:18

Er, we all pay tax to help support a state school system. It benefits the whole of society for us to provide adequate, free education for all children. Some parents then use their free choice to take their children out of the system, by home schooling or paying for private school. If the state school system is struggling then clearly we should look at that and fix it through more funding, new ways or working, better working conditions for teachers etc (whatever is needed).

It’s like healthcare - free at point of delivery, and some people then opt out with private. We (thankfully) don’t then charge people who use public systems an extra tax.

If you add a tax for the parents of children at state schools (I assume that is what you are suggesting, not taxing the children) then you can be sure that those earning more and therefore paying more will demand more funding to their schools and so the divide gets bigger. And others will take their kids out of school for completely the wrong reasons.

JassyRadlett · 28/05/2024 14:17

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:14

Agreed. Where dues the money come from to do all that?

The Tories reckon there's £6bn sloshing around from tax avoidance that is fairly easily recoverable so that might be a start...

I'm assuming your policy would have exemptions, such as those children living in poverty who probably benefit the most from educational opportunities?

HeraSyndulla · 28/05/2024 14:17

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:12

Exactly.

And many people choose to invest in their child's education directly. Many hard working people who priorities their kids future. But apparently they are the "entitled and privileged bubble".

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:17

norfolkbroadd · 28/05/2024 14:00

It's proper Mumsnetty isn't it? I love watching parents get their knickers in a twist trying to justify private schooling here. The lies they tell themselves to justify it too. Proper bonkers.

How would you improve state schools?

FWIW i will pay the vat. It’s not a big problem for me. I wonder why everyone’s moaning about inequality and privilege but won’t help state schools get better. It wouldn’t take much per person. Would you do it? Do you deserve not to?

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pizzaHeart · 28/05/2024 14:17

GasPanic · 28/05/2024 13:49

I know plenty of people who "worked their arse off" to get to high salaries.

In fact I suspect a good proportion of people on high salaries do.

Not sure that a taxation system based on how hard you actually work is possible to implement. Possibly through some sort of extra box on the assessment form that you tick "I worked my arse off this year" and they give you a deduction.

I dont mind your sarcasm at all and it's true you cant just tick this box and get a discount. However when I look at the size of bonuses some high level bosses are receiving (e.g. from gas and electic companies wher the profits are purely circumstantial) I dont think the system is fair at all. I'm sure they dont work SO hard to justify their salaries and bonuses. However they often say that it's because of it.
I also not sure that they work SO well to justify their salaries and bonuses, just remember Paula Wennels, the former director of Post office, and many others
So it's about this sort of fairness.
Say, with lower prices for gas and electicity private schools parents would have extra cash and would feel much more comfortable financially.

Runnerduck34 · 28/05/2024 14:17

Well national insurance is meant to be used support the NHS and we can all see how that worked out....
I think(?) road tax isn't used exclusively for roads either.
So I don't think a schools/ education tax would work.
We all pay tax which is used for good of the country overall but we don't get a say really in how it's spent whether that's flights to Rwanda, high speed rail services, schools or nhs

ThursdayTomorrow · 28/05/2024 14:16

There already is such a thing called income tax which funds state schools.
State schools would benefit more by having an influx of motivated students backed by motivated parents - I would welcome children from private schools in to the state schools, it would help improve them further.

PrincessTeaSet · 28/05/2024 14:16

StormingNorman · 28/05/2024 14:05

Roads are covered by road tax which you pay for every vehicle so there is already an additional charge to users.

Obviously not true...

TheDefiant · 28/05/2024 14:16

iamtheblcksheep · 28/05/2024 14:06

I don’t want to pay for your kids! I’m a higher rate tax payer, don’t use the nhs or state schools. How much of money do you actually want?

And before you start calling me every name under the sun. Not too many years ago I was homeless. Call me privelaged. I dare you.

Do you float everywhere? (Or don't use roads or pavements). Do you have your own private army and emergency services? Do you have your own satellite for internet? Did you build that rocket and launch it yourself?

Was everyone who provides services to you paid for by you from cradle to grave?

Why not?

Everyone benefits from an educated population. Even if you don't have children or use the NHS.

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:15

GasPanic · 28/05/2024 13:59

Do you have any evidence of how much tax billionaires actually pay ?

Did you know that the top 10% of earners pay 60% of the income tax take in the UK ?

Or that the top 1% pay 30% of it ?

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not going to be crying a river over whether or not UK billionaires are rushing to the food banks. But they do pay an awful lot of tax.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8513/

Oh I know some do. I also know that a lot of Uber wealthy people (not just the mugs in the middle and above) make it their aim to pay as little tax as possible.

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HappierTimesAhead · 28/05/2024 14:15

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 13:46

And you’re adding to this debate how?

It's not a debate though, it's just a ridiculous thought that came into your head and you decided to start a thread about. You are just pissed that you have to pay more. It doesn't mean that those of us that access state education should have to start paying for something that should be funded by the state.

Itloggedmeoutagain · 28/05/2024 14:14

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:12

Exactly.

But this is not quite what's being suggested is it?

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:14

Meadowfinch · 28/05/2024 13:58

I think it will take more than that. I think state schools need....

More cash to pay teachers & other staff properly
More SEN provision
More PRUs so that disruptive pupils can be separated out and taught separately as their needs dictate
A period of consistency, with no changes to curricula
To remove the straight-jacket of control over every tiny aspect of teaching, that makes it a joyless misery.
Repairs to school facilities.

Then we might get somewhere.

Agreed. Where dues the money come from to do all that?

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JassyRadlett · 28/05/2024 14:14

SpinyNorma · 28/05/2024 14:07

Wouldn't be against a council tax surcharge on properties above a certain value in catchment areas of outstanding schools that is used to fund other schools in the area.

I'd rather have proper admissions reform rather that economically segregate schools even further.

Taxation by catchment would be near impossible in a lot of areas without defined catchments and with declining student population. What if you bought a house out of catchment knowing you couldn't afford the surcharge, and five years later your house was within the admissions area?

Bewareofthisonetoo · 28/05/2024 14:13

StormingNorman · 28/05/2024 13:59

Maybe child benefit could be diverted to schools to reallocate funding for children rather than impose an additional tax?

This

mrssunshinexxx · 28/05/2024 14:13

@edwinbear well said

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:13

Chocochoo · 28/05/2024 13:56

I think this might be one of the stupidest ideas I’ve ever read on here.

Ok Sherlock. How would you solve the issue with state schools?

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beetr00 · 28/05/2024 14:13

PerfectForEloping · 28/05/2024 13:49

I think the government needs to stop mismanaging the money they do have got a start and then see where we are. You can’t keep taxing people more and then wasting it.

Totally agree with this.

OpusGiemuJavlo · 28/05/2024 14:13

@Floatingvoternolandinsight Not very relevant but it was bought from the council by its previous occupants under right to buy as they had lived there since the 1960s and bought it in the 1980s then continued to live in it till they died over a decade ago at which time it was marketed by their executors and we bought it. About 40% of homes originally built as council housing are now privately owned but they tend to be a lower price-point than houses of the same size built for the open market and are hence more affordable - it was certainly all we could afford when we bought.

Einwegflasche · 28/05/2024 14:12

StormingNorman · 28/05/2024 13:59

Maybe child benefit could be diverted to schools to reallocate funding for children rather than impose an additional tax?

That would plunge already struggling people deeper into poverty.

TheDefiant · 28/05/2024 14:12

Maybe people who benefit from those educated at state schools should pay extra tax too? You know for the roads those people built that we drive on. For being staff at services we use (cinema, cafe) for being staff in the NHS, military and emergency services?

Honestly this is such a silly question OP. Education should be well funded. As should many others things. Money isn't an infinite resource.

Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney · 28/05/2024 14:12

K0OLA1D · 28/05/2024 13:56

I've always said I'd pay more tax if it was guaranteed to go to education and the NHS

Exactly.

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Northernnature · 28/05/2024 14:12

I think there is a massive amount of entitlement in this country. In some African countries children walk miles to get an education and it is really valued while here parents abuse teachers and there is alot of poor behaviour. I think everyone should pay an upfront payment for education (same for health) as at the moment they think of it as "free" so take for granted.

OnceICaughtACold · 28/05/2024 14:11

StormingNorman · 28/05/2024 14:05

Roads are covered by road tax which you pay for every vehicle so there is already an additional charge to users.

There is no such thing as “road tax”. There is a vehicle tax, the level of which is determined by the emissions level of the vehicle. The tax raised goes in to the general tax coffers of the treasury. My car, for example, has a tax rate of £0.

HandaFae · 28/05/2024 14:11

Perhaps we can ask for the billions the Tory government wasted (gave to their mates) back.

I'd be happy to pay higher taxes to support any of the services that should be available to us in this country.