Tracing stillborn babies - feeling stunned

Exactly I can't imagine anyone makes the decision lightly.

Thinking about it, it must have been awful for MWs dealing with babies born like that back in the day.
And trying to do the right thing for the mother or what they believed was "for the best".

It's been illegal to employ a woman in a factory in the 4 weeks post birth since the Factories Act 1891.

I guess maternity leave would have been much later, 1975 maybe?

However you can return to an office job after 2 weeks. I don't know the first legislation for it.

Good grief. I'm so sorry. That happened to my mum in the 1960s: "What did you DO?"

I didn't think that it still happened in the '80s.

My friend went through a TFMR because her baby never developed any lungs. She said she couldn’t bear the idea of watching them struggle for a few minutes in pain after being born. Because it really would only be minutes. It’s a horrible decision and I can’t imagine judging anyone for making a decision they think best in a situation no one would want to be in

Thank you for sharing your story Marylou about your beautiful son. I think your way is perhaps more what I was thinking, so not the complete sweeping it under the carpet, but also not making it the identity of younger siblings. It is hard to explain and I'm very conscious that what I say may be upsetting to others (especially as the written word can be so blunt)

To all who have been touched by baby and infant loss.

You do realise that their are babies who would make it to full term who's life would never be long, some who would die the second the cord was cut. Brain not fully developed, insides in all the wrong places. Lungs not developed.
Not even all spinabifa cases are compatible with life, the brain can be open and scull not formed. It's not always a simple fix.Some Downs children, have more cognitive function than others. Some will have some level of independence others will need 24hr care for the entire life. Many need open heart surgery, to close up holes in their hearts too which might not even have been possible 50 or 60 years ago. There are other children born into this world who will never speak, who will never be continent, able to walk or even stear their own wheelchair. Not enough muscle tone to be able to cough up mucus so end up needing it surgically removed.

You obviously have a reasonable amount of physical and cognitive function to be able to type or even use voice recognition on MN.

You cannot judge people for TFMR, you do not know the complete circumstances. I do not believe anyone makes the decision lightly. And couples and wider families will still grief for those little babies.

I was told this about my sister. The baby grave and pauper grave were the same area I believe and I was told she’d been put with an elderly gent.

Thank you for making it 'normal' for people coming after you.. parents and nurses..
I worked in a neonatal unit in the mid 80s and made tiny backless embroidered christening gowns that could be laid over and tucked in around tiny preterm babies that would be very hard to dress because of all the tubes and wires..
I remember some families in tears because it bought a bit of normality when the babies were being blessed/christened or being given other religious rites..

We were actively encouraged to involve the other kids (my DSD and DS1) when DS2 was stillborn in 2020. Christmas baubles to decorate, little mementos to share, a note from the midwives to the siblings, even a specially commissioned picture book to explain to young kids what has happened were all in the memory box we were given by a baby loss charity at the hospital.
The nightmare for me would be for my kids to find out the way you did. They know they have another brother, they know where he is, they know why mummy cries sometimes, they know that they are loved and he is loved and they like having a bonus cake on his birthday!
I have an ex who found out as an adult that he had had a twin brother who died shortly after birth and he felt so betrayed, and feels terrible that he was so hard on his mum for being weird on his birthday every year. That was what made my mind up to be honest with the kids.
I'd never want them to feel like they live in his shadow or anything so we don't bang on about it, it's just something they have always known about. Time will tell if we have done it right. What a minefield.

In the 70s,80s & 90s my late dad was a Funeral Director. Often when he picked up a deceased person a late miscarriage/ still birth/ neonatal baby would be tucked in with the adult. Not a lack of respect just a hope the baby wasn't on their own for their final journey.

They put me on a labour ward whilst I was miscarrying during covid, I was alone because of the social distancing rules and could hear newborn babies crying through the walls just after I’d handed my own miscarried baby over to a midwife. It still happens.

I was 14 and miscarried in horrific circumstances. Partly alone. Partly with an abusive person present. After I was seen my a gp. There was no care, just efforts to keep this quiet. And also an air of “thank goodness you didn’t have his baby”.
I wear a little pink heart now, as all his children are girls. This was late 90s

Id imagine those who lost babies during pandemic must have had very lovely awful experiences too. Yes times have moved on but not enough. So sorry to everyone who shared their harrowing experiences.

She took it very matter of fact that these babies were never meant to be, didn't give them names, doesn't regret not having a grave for them and struggles to relate to current culture on baby loss. And honestly as the surviving child I'm glad I was never in their shadow growing up.

I was fairly old before I found out about my brother, and it wasn't direct. She was comforting someone else and I think she 'forgot' I was stood next to her. As the youngest of the three surviving children I did sometimes have thoughts about my own existence and would I have existed had he not passed away.

I know a family who's first child was stillborn, the subsequent children are very much involved in their grief (for want of a better expression) and are regularly taken to the graveside to spend time with their sibling, having birthday celebrations etc. I understand that it is not my story to tell, but do wonder how the children will feel as they grow up.

On reflection of my own experience I do think that that would have made how I did feel even worse, maybe that I wasn't good enough or that I was being wished away.

I don't want to go back to it being a hidden thing, but I do think that overly involving subsequent children isn't good either.

I had a miscarriage four years ago and was sent to the antenatal rooms for a scan.
it was devastating.
i ended up having a d and c because it didn’t complete naturally and the nurse patted me on the shoulder and told me there would be plenty more babies. That was the first time I had been pregnant in six years of not using contraception.
not the same but there is still a road for materinty services to travel.

This happened to my grandma. She had a baby girl in 1950s New Zealand, who was either still born or died shortly after birth, I'm not exactly sure of the details. Anyway the baby was whisked away and my gran was never allowed to see her or know where she was buried.

Many years later when my lovely, sweet aunt was an adult she asked my gran if she wanted her to try to find the baby's grave and my gran said yes.

My grandma finally got to visit her firstborn child's grave for the first time when she was in her 70's.

I have had two TFMRs for what are considered a 'grey' diagnosis. My two were on the 'very severe' side of the spectrum and likely wouldn't have survived to birth, or lived long after (with or without major and continuous invasive medical procedures. Their life expectancy was short and painful although I have no doubt they would have brought so much joy too.

When you're using emotive language like "many would have had me killed as a burden", please, and I say this gently, think of the women here who have had to make the choice (and it's not really a choice) to let go of their precious, loved, wanted babies due to a diagnosis made in utero.

I can only speak for myself, but I did it because I didn't want them to suffer, and I couldn't watch them die a slow and agonising death. Our decision was made with love at the heart and soul of it. I live with the loss of them every day.

It happened because the culture was least said soonest mended, and if it was down played then it was better for the mother. Recognising it as the death of a child would have been thought to encourage grief and make more of it than necessary when the best thing would be to jolly the woman along so she could recover quickly and try again. Also many of the practices encouraged today, holding, bathing, dressing and spending time with the baby would have been seen as unhealthy and macabre.

@triballeader You're amazing and you will have made a huge difference to people's lives! 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
Those tiny moses baskets and clothes will have helped enormously xxxxxxx

Yes, I was born in 1985.

As a student nurse in the early 70’s if you wanted to get married and continue nursing you had to get Matron’s permission, if you were pregnant you stopped working or were dismissed and very few nurses returned to work after having children.
This had changed by the late 70’s when I married.

Also some people might not know but 'live abortions' still happen where babies are left to die naturally. They are babies earmarked for abortion after 24 weeks who where born alive after induction but then left to die naturally sometimes taking days until they starve/freeze to death. Its not a 'historic' as people think.

It has happened at least 27 times in Australia. There has been human rights cases fought over it as its against the Human rights conventions but still happening.

I'm glad my disabilities are invisible and untestable in utero... many would have had me killed as a 'burden'.

Its abhorrent people still think so abelist.

Many of my friends or their children have 'abort-able' medical conditions from Spina bifida to Down syndrome many others have non testable things like Autism. Its easy for healthy people to sit there and accuse those of us who are different as 'suffering' but we are not, we are just as entitled to life and health care as anyone else.

People need to remember no matter how 'healthy' they currently are now most people will end up with health issues or disabilities at some point in life. It doesn't mean their value or want to live instantly stops.

Look at people who go to literal hell and back for cancer treatment just at a chance of surviving, will/fight to live is not linked to 'health'.

You're not wrong, but she's not playing with a full deck. Just leave her to it.

I certainly don't mean disabled children aren't loved, just the same as babies who are tfrm are very much loved and wanted babies.

If the baby was left to die it probably means their condition wasn't compatible with life, of if they could have survived it would have put horrendous strain on the family. And affected that families ability to care for their other children

Support for families with disabled children is still dire, back I'm thinking 60s 70s and earlier it was probably even worse. If a family couldn't cope there were big old asylums which were often full of abuse.

I lost my 4th at 22 weeks, I didn't want to see her as I didn't want that image in my head. I also declined the kind offer of taking footprints because I thought that would be a horrible job for the midwives. Ditto declining a post mortem.
My baby had been dead for about a week before I gave birth (being sent home to go into labour naturally after being given the news still stuns me, I expected them to do something!) and in my head I had a decomposing baby inside me, it was the last thing I wanted to see.
I don't regret my choice. I had 3 healthy children and that one just wasn't meant to be. I'm a very pragmatic person though.