The reaction to National Service on here

Well, it'll go pretty well for the legal profession at least. Nice money to be made challenging it!

Not yet RTFT but most army people are against it. They say the worst thing they want to do is babysit kids who don't want to be there and aren't serious about it and could put lives in jeopardy. You don't want to give those sorts of kids a rifle.

This is true as far as it goes.

What is interesting though is that what Thatcher was saying is essentially that people need to realize that benefits given by the state are made possible through the work of other citizens. The state isn't a person that is productive in itself. So there is a public duty to be productive if we want the state to be able to provide benefits.

Essentially that there needs to be a balance between what we want the state to provide and our expectation of contributing to that. She felt that there was a lack of balance in people's expectations, which, given the whole IMF loan, seems potentially justified.

So what does happen in other countries where they have national service? You seem very knowledgeable about it so presumably you are thinking of a specific country?

Yep!

And not one of the people who are chiding others for not buying into it are making anything like the same commitment level themselves. The OPs description of her own voluntary activities falls well short of what she feels entitled to expect from 18 year olds, and most of the others haven't even said that.

I assume we'll now get a series of posts from people supporting the proposals and claiming they do a full unpaid day a month and more, and maybe they won't all be lying. But it's very telling. If you thought it was that wonderful, you wouldn't want to limit it to 18 year old NEETs.

Who says people would need to give up all those things? Do you really think that is what happens in places where there is NS? Because it's not. Many of those things would continue much as they are.

It's also temporary, and the reason it's usually proposed for younger people is because it dovetails in well to the end of their education years and can provide a good start into the adult working world.

Your whole post, that it's crazy that anyone should expect to give up anything like even a weekend hobby, for a short time, to serve the wider community, reeks of entitlement.

That's going to go really well, isn't it?

Why are people assuming that those objecting to this don't have community spirit? They may well have more community spirit than the entire tory party put together but object to forced labour dictated by a party that have shown they don't give a flying fuck about our communities. It's insulting to all the teens up and down the country who are already giving back more to their communities than any tory ever has.

It is just a distraction, some people obviously think its a great idea, others don't. But while we are arguing about NS we're not agreeing on what is actually wrong with the Government/country/society which is nice for both Cons and Lab.

I won't worry about it anyway, Tories are finished for a while so it won't happen. Whatever Starmer proposes in response might though...........

Indeed. All we have to do is not vote Conservative, which seems a no-brainer for all sorts of reasons. I don't think many new 18 year old voters will be, DD1 certainly won't be voting for them.

Unless MN is full of people currently under 18 years none of the posters who think it is a ridiculous idea will have to do anything. That's one of the many reasons any fair minded person would object.

The social contract is broken, that's why people don't feel like "putting in".

People used to get things out of it as well, such as being able to see a doctor when you are unwell or send your kids to a decent school, or be able to buy a house, or rent one affordably or save enough money for retirement.

More and more of our money is being hoovered up by the top 0.1% so that people don't get these basic things. People are too exhausted trying to live their every day lives in a broken country.

So why limit it to young people?

If its not just a shiny pre-election nonsense or free labour grab, and there is inherent value in fostering a sense of belonging and participation in your country, then surely it should be imposed upon every citizen who is of voting age.

Seems silly to have realised this value but to only seek to instil it in about 1% of the population. Surely we should wait this sense of belonging and pride to be instilled in the 38 year old parents of 2 kids as well, they're literally raising the next generation

You could also do those things AND GET PAID WELL FOR IT.

I agree.

and have you reflected on why you feel justified to exempt yourself while imposing it on others. You are not doing anything - you have no moral authority to comment

The reaction is confirmation to me of the lack of citizen responsibility and dare I even use the dirty word….patriotism

It used to be an honour to serve for your country and ‘put back in’ but alas, no more

From what I’ve seen, there is a lot to be gained by every young person in partaking in this. I don’t understand the issue with ‘voluntary’. School isn’t voluntary either but no one has a problem with that. And most things you do in life aren’t completely voluntary, I have to go to work to pay my bills, it’s not voluntary, I have some freedom in what I do, but I can’t just do nothing and watch tv all day.

I think fostering a sense of belonging to a country, one where you partake in the upkeep and pride in that country is a good thing

Compulsory "volunteering" is not volunteering - it's free labour.

Anyone who's daft enough to believe this proposal would actually be of benefit deserves the decline in public services that would inevitably result.

Frankly, reading this thread makes me want to sign up to an MLM and email some of the people who agree with OP to see if they'll buy into a wonderful business opportunity. The gullibility is off the charts.

Well given half the sole organizations that support the armed forces are not government funded I wouldn't be waiting that long for the government to dig us out this mess .

What do we pay tax for? I would happily pay more tax for decent public services rather than having a public sector falling apart and basic public services being mopped up by charities. That's my National Service. Having a well paid job and paying my fucking taxes. People voting Conservative get the society they deserve, but I'm not sure what the rest of us have done to deserve this mess.

Yes, it's like people have forgotten what a failure the Big Society bollocks was. It's one thing believing that the first time round, but now? Inexcusable!

If we ever went to war the entire country would be glued to the tv awaiting advice and instruction off the government. Everyone would be assuming that other people would save us and protect the country - yet wouldn’t want to be involved in that themselves.

Yes we moan about the cost of living but we’ve been very very lucky we have not been involved in a war for a very long time. Those hardships have long been forgotten. The country has an under current of hating this very safe place that people literally travel across seas to reach. We are a very entitled, selfish, lazy nation

I think it’s a very good idea that we should all be involved in national service - and not just for making cups of tea.

It’s already a disgrace how much of the fallout of this government’s policies lands on the voluntary sector. Disgraceful and frightening. People released from prison, care leavers, victims of domestic abuse, children in poverty, people with terminal illness… and so many others. Almost all are directed to charities for support.
When is the government going to accept that they need to pay for resources to clean up their own mess?