The reaction to National Service on here

You are slightly wrong by comparing it to military service as some European countries had/will have.

The proposed By Sunak service for 18 years old is mostly community service and not military as in European countries is. Nobody will be crawling in mud with the helmet and rifle in hand under the spiky wire as they do in Europe where there is compulsory military service.
Even the 30k is for nerdy specialists who will support cybersecurity, engineering etc. Still nothing like military service in some European countries.

UK is an island and doesn't need refined land defence. It needs RAF and NAVY professional specialists and people who will support community service ( and that what Sunak just announced).

I work with a lot of people this age and whilst a lot have their heads on straight and can be left to do a job on their own, there is a fair percentage who have managers constantly chasing them to do work and not skive off in the toilet or go missing in the building. And that is in a quite decently paid job

I just wonder how these sort of people will be when they aren’t actually getting paid

Right @ColdToezzz !

I’m truly shocked at how many people on here have been sucked in by this notion. Especially on a parenting forum! Not much deep thinking going on about how life today truly is for our young people.

What is stopping you from encouraging your daughters into volunteering even without this scheme?

Exactly this!!!!

I’m so sick of the notion that all young people are ‘selfish’ and ‘entitled’ and ‘snowflakes’. It smacks of adultism (not to mention hypocrisy!)

Young people have had a shitty deal for many years now under the Tory government. The economy has gone to shit. They have zero hope of being home owners until maybe their 30s (if they’re lucky). The education system is underfunded and highly pressured and ‘one size fits all’. They were called Granny killers during the pandemic. They’ve inherited a climate crisis. Inequality has become bigger than ever.

This is a quote from Barnardo’s;

“Children are constantly being bombarded with news of the challenges they face – from worsening inequality and environmental concerns to health worries and an out-of-control housing market,” said Perry. “None of this is of their making but it’s just not right that children are left to dread the years ahead instead of feeling excited about their future. We know that to be especially true for children from disadvantaged backgrounds.”

We should be making life better for our young people not worse!

make up your own if you want, but I left out all other permutations, as doing it at a different time when it was convenient is not quite the same as doing it at 18 - which is being discussed, or doing it now, which is the people discussing it, and who know what the current situation is, and I wanted to keep it simple. Presumably most people have done some, at some stage.

⌛⏲

Is there a marker for did that level of voluntary service but as a 30 year old? 😏

What would be helpful on this thread is a sign to say if we are someone who is actually contributing that level of voluntary service, cos quite frankly, if you are not doing it yourself you have no moral grounds to impose it on others.

Here's my suggestions.

⏲ If you currently do this amount of official voluntary service yourself, mark your post with a clock, from the emojis menu marked with a lightbulb

⌛If you did that amount of official voluntary service as an 18 year old for at least a year, mark your post with a sand timer - from the same menu

My prediction is that almost everyone will wanting this imposed will not be able to honestly mark their post, ( although I would expect half of marked posts to be dishonest, this being mumsnet.....)

⏳⏲

This, followed by the triple pension lock announcement shortly afterwards smacks of desperation/bribery.

If the government were serious about using NS or compulsory volunteering compulsory for 18 year old NEETs, they would have proposed it a long time ago, and engaged in consultation with relevant agencies to see if it was viable or was likely to be effective.

This proposal has been announced six weeks before the general election, with no real thought of how it will be financed or whether it is likely to have any long term benefits.

It is just another desperate appeal for votes or publicity before the election.

No they will literally not.

There are approx 750,000 18 year olds in the UK.

The number of places available for the military option of National Service will be approx 30,000. These will be allocated by a selection process. This is the only paid option.

National Service is peacetime conscription. https://www.nam.ac.uk/explore/what-was-national-service

If you believe 'very few' would be doing it in the military, you are delusional and have no idea that National Service LITERALLY means serving in the armed forces. That is what it LITERALLY MEANS. That's the entire point of it! They're not going to be baking cupcakes for the elderly! They will LITERALLY be serving in the armed forces.

Such entitled snowflakes.

I can imagine @MrsSkylerWhite not surprising.

Also, I'm sure it's been said but you know all kids circumstances are different yes? My eldest had to get a weekend job at 16 and my youngest will. They aren't all born to parents able to fund all their wants. Not all teens are lazy. Just the ones who are allowed to be.

Iaskedyouthrice · Today 11:40
I think we should all be made to do it. You can guarantee the ones shouting the loudest about idle teens have contributed the square root of fuck all themselves. It's a certain type isn't it?
Anyone in decent health under 65 and disabilities taken into account when doling out the different volunteer roles. There we go”

A very sensible suggestion. Interesting that on another thread, someone has suggested similar. Quite a lot of offended older people not taking at all kindly to the idea. Funny, that.

I'm all for encouraging young people to contribute to the community but am dead set against this for many reasons. I have been a volunteer myself in the past but was able to fit in at various points in my life. I've also worked with young people.

Assuming the plans as outlined in yesterdays Telegraph is correct there will be

No exceptions or deferments for university students with or without weekend jobs/commitments.

No exceptions or deferments for those who are employed full time except possibly those employed in the NHS or prison service but with the presumption still that "all will serve"

No exceptions or deferments for those with caring responsibilities.

No exceptions or deferments for those on a gap year abroad, they will have to return to do their service

Other countries allow deferral so you can do your national service once yo have finished your education or they make provision for elite athletes/musicians etc. My daughter told me one country separates elite athletes and provides sports coaching during their national service.

Aged 18 my daughter was training for a career at college alongside working part time evenings and weekends and being a young carer for a family member with dementia, offering much needed respite for that person's spouse.

Aged 18 my son was at college, working part time as a musician gigging at weekends alongside being involved in youth theatre, a registered charity that helped him a lot when he was younger. The summer he left college age 18 he single handedly organised a fundraising concert, oh, and also spend a lot of the summer with NYMT, another registered charity. His first year at uni was funded by him being a gigging musician and playing piano for community theatre groups.

He has friends who were working alongside studying to help pay towards their families, one had a disabled sibling, another had a parent with health issues who couldn't work more than part time. These kids need more help, not kicking when they are down. They are dong their best to give themselves a future through work and education.

If some kind of scheme was organised for 6th form/college students as part of their course of studies or more was done about those between the age of 16-18 who are not in employment, education or training I would be all in favour. But it isn't. No-one cares about them. They are wanting to hit young people at the exact time when they need it the least.

I think we should all be made to do it. You can guarantee the ones shouting the loudest about idle teens have contributed the square root of fuck all themselves. It's a certain type isn't it?
Anyone in decent health under 65 and disabilities taken into account when doling out the different volunteer roles. There we go.

😅

WoshPank · Today 11:33
MaryMaryVeryContrary · Today 11:25

Apart from very few would doing it in the military 🙄 read the articles
Show quote history
**
Note that the people who work in organisations with volunteers also think it's a terrible idea.
**
But you seem to think you know better.”

@WoshPank : I imagine Mary has had just about enough of experts 🙄

Safe to say the people who support the proposals don't realise anything much about either the military or voluntary sector. It's Dunning Kruger writ large.

They did do it in the first world war which wasn't that long ago. I wouldn't put anything past the Tories.

Note that the people who work in organisations with volunteers also think it's a terrible idea.

But you seem to think you know better.