The reaction to National Service on here

@YourPinkDog Please read the scope of the proposal national service. Sunak is not proposing a military service as it is in e.g Scandinavian countries. Sunak proposes a. community service for most of 18 years old and b. 30k will have specialist training ( not military)

I presume you've never had to spend time trying to find work for volunteers to do. How many posts are going to be needed in the NHS etc etc etc in order to ensure that the teenagers are safe, and have work to do? You can't just grab someone and give them something to do. A lot of the time they're going to need DBS at the minimum.

When my son is 18 (when he is 16 in fact) he will be expected to have a weekend job. Can he bank the 4 hours of volunteering he does already, or will he also have to give that up if it clashes with the Governments idea of volunteering?

Its being criticised as it's not even slightly thought out. It's a headline and nothing else.

You mean Citizenship class? It is not defence preparation. Look at curiculum. Totally different subject. No first aid, no topography, no service wtc

I get the sense you aren’t from the UK, perhaps the poster is expressing an opinion, informed by actually living that experience, the UK now as opposed to 20-30 years ago has one of the highest levels of wealth inequality in the world, these details can’t be after thoughts. Perhaps we don’t all want to be Global citizens that think the same, have the same cultural values as others and the principle of NS comes into that as Britain has never really been a culturally obedient society. It isn’t bad like you are suggesting, it isn’t good, it just is what it is!

This policy is really a manifestation of backward looking ideologies that want a future that replicates a past that never really was I.e National Service made young people good citizens or worse made men of boys (someone has actually posted that on this thread). To focus on the past like this eschews optimism and it definitely is the politics of being on the edge of the abyss, which is just lazy and irrational if you think about it.

I have a 17 year old DS he is busy doing what he wants to do, just like I was at that age. I sincerely think if we had some kind of revisiting of music, art and books, some nurturing of the soul then we would all be better people anyway!

I saw that in the Telegraph too which tends to be very supportive of the Tory party, so cannot think they'd make it up to make them look bad. Even though it does, rather.

It's not made up. I posted it earlier. It's a screenshot from The Telegraph newspaper online.

And considering they have always been seen as a Tory newspaper traditionally!

That looks made up if I’m honest.

It's the bit about those already in jobs that has angered me. They work full-time, pay taxes like the rest of us but have no say in how they spend 1 weekend out of 4.

I saw this today and it really got to me

Am I correct in thinking that none of these other countries expect 1st year university students to do national service and certainly not alongside their studies?

I agree that we should all have to do it, think it could make a big difference collectiviely in many ways.

@Teddleshon perhaps when they are at school but at university it gets more difficult.
My DCs have done a lot of volunteering - DC1 has done far more than suggested amount (hard physical work out in all weathers working with people and animals) and started aged 12 but she stopped aged 16 as she had a lot of other commitments. She has a job lined up while at university but she doesn’t know what shifts she’ll be able to commit to until she gets her uni timetable and she’s hoping her employer will provide some flexibility as her uni timetable changes over the year (her course has a lot of contact time). She’s a bit stressed about that as it is. She’s also really looking forward to doing a lot of sport but she’ll have to work out how to fit in training and game time.

I don’t disagree that volunteering is beneficial but I don’t see why this specific cohort is being targeted rather than the population as at whole and at a time of life where for some it is very inconvenient.

Would they still be ‘allowed’ to do NS if they’ve failed their GCSEs, or rather don’t have the required grades to get onto many college courses, apprenticeships?. Often those who haven’s done well at school thrive in other areas! If NS is a requirement for our young people, then there should be more options for those wishing to do vocational courses, more college courses available where learning is entirely different and doesn’t just rely on one test at the end of secondary school! If they’re good enough for NS without qualifications, then they’re good enough to be given FAR more opportunities than what is currently out there!

Let 18 year olds have a wider option’s pool, just like their parents and great grandparents did!

Maybe - but that's what she said!

@BlackbeardsToast there are always those who do help others out. Volunteer, set up local community projects, and help those in need. And those who are on the take. You get both.
We saw this for ourselves during covid.

OP you are ignoring the obvious question. What is the point of it?
We do not need military national service. The Scandinavians have it because of the real risk of invasion. If we were at a real risk of the French invading us, I would support this. But that is a ridiculous idea. Our armed services are largely fighting wars in foreign countries. We do not need 18 year olds in the UK giving up a weekend every month.

The second purpose could be volunteering to support our public services. You suggest youngsters picking up and delivering prescriptions. I would not want them doing this. The risk is too many don't bother. They say they have delivered the prescriptions when they have not for example.

In every day life it is getting paid and the possibility of getting sacked that makes people do jobs like this. And it is choosing to volunteer that makes people fulfill volunteer roles. In this scenario you have nearer. Just a bunch of 18 year olds who do not want to be there, whose parents do not want them to be there, and could not be trusted to do what they are asked to do. It is a nightmare situation of no benefit to anyone.

And in all or at least most countries with national service, if you do not do it you risk being imprisoned or sanctioned through the courts. The PM has also said no one would be sent to prison. It is unenforceable.

If you want to encourage more volunteering, look at an enhanced scheme, perhaps under Duke of Edinburgh, to encourage additional volunteering for those 18 plus.

The second world war wasn't "all in it together" either and was very much everyone for themselves.

I remember my Gran saying as much. She always scoffed as the chocolate box view that everyone suddenly became super collaborative and selfless. She said everyone was on the take to get as much out of it as they could

The second world war wasn't "all in it together" either and was very much everyone for themselves. That's what a war means, it's not dances with GIs at the village hall and everyone growing their own veg and keeping chickens.

💕

God help the country if we go to war.
It won't be like the second world war in it together.
This would be every man, woman and child for themselves.

When you live in a country where your own flag is apparently too racist for local authorities to display you cannot ask people to do 'national service'.

As for compulsory voluntary service, I know a fair few people born abroad who were sent to this country by their wealthy parents so they could avoid their own form of National Service, so if you think anyone with any money would find their child doing it unless they actually wanted to, you are a fool.

This country has no loyalty to people born here and shows that every day.
It cannot expect anyone born here to show any loyalty to it in return.

If anyone made me do any such thing, I can guarantee they'd regret it.
I'd make sure every second I was forced to do something would cost the state money and would actively sabotage any attempt for the state to benefit off my enforced labour.
I'd support any child of mine to either be out of the country or sabotaging the scheme too.

If you are something like the fire service or ambulance service you really don't want resentful teenagers who have been forced to be there by whichever slimy politicians are in power then in any role at all.

I suspect the actual staff there (who of course will be cut because of the projections of all this so called free help they'll be supposedly getting) won't enjoy having to oversee a bunch of teenagers who don't want to be there and don't care about whatever they are being forced to show up for either.

The military aren't going to want a load of idiots who don't want to be there either.

If a person wants to volunteer, they can go right ahead and do it now.
If they don't, then leave them alone.

None of that is being proposed here. No remuneration, no planning, no common sense.

@Coughsweet The two who worked in care homes were paid but as I said, they never carried out anything resembling intimate or medical care.

As a family we have also always done a lot of volunteering on top of any work commitments and still do.

Given the latest figures show that over half of teenagers are spending more than 4 hours a day on social media I really don’t think 2 days a month volunteering for one year is beyond the pale.

Yes, it's not clear in the slightest.