Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To worry Labour will (part) privatise the NHS?

43 replies

DrBlackbird · 27/05/2024 17:44

A friend recently commented to me that Labour plans to continue to move the NHS further along the privatisation pathway. I’ve read the following in the FT:

Wes Streeting has said ..the precondition for additional funding would be reform, including through the rollout of new technologies and partnerships with cutting-edge private companies Also that Streeting has mentioned several times plans to use the private sector for hip, knee and eye surgeries funded by the NHS and dismisses concerns about using NHS funds to pay private providers.

The thought of further reform is concerning. Does anyone have any more information on Streeting’s plans? Or general thoughts? Please note, I am NOT denying the Tories have eviscerated NHS services. This is not a comparison between the Tories and Labour. Tories will lose the GE so it’s a moot point. More, anyone have thoughts on Labour’s planned approach.

Whilst Blair’s Labour did invest in the NHS there were some disastrous policy decisions eg the PFI. NHS trusts now spend £2bn a year financing debt on private finance initiative (PFI) projects. That was a New Labour initiative.

IABU = Move along. Nothing to worry about here.
IANBU = Streeting’s reforms could be like New Labour’s shambolic PFI

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Pin0cchio · 03/06/2024 20:13

You’re okay in the states as long as you work in a reasonable job.

No, you aren't. Half my corporate team are in NYC and my coworker just had to pay a $5,000 co-pay for... giving birth.

I shit you not.

Pin0cchio · 03/06/2024 20:12

This OP reads like a junior social media person the Conservative HQ was sent among us to sow seeds of doubt

Nothing to see here. Anything labour would do on this front, the conservatives would do tenfold so if you don't like it, vote labour!!

Original poster
DrBlackbird · 03/06/2024 20:12

I remember watching Sicko the film about the USA healthcare system and a baby died because the nearest hospital wasn’t covered by the parents insurance

During Covid a 17 year old boy died in a taxi after being turned away from one hospital because ‘no insurance’ going to another publicly funded one. You’re okay in the states as long as you work in a reasonable job.

OP posts:
Original poster
DrBlackbird · 03/06/2024 20:10

It's the way the rest of Europe, and indeed most of the world operates. I can't understand why people in the UK think it can't work here.

Well for one, I absolutely have no faith that we’d have a well run French or German or Dutch type health insurance insurance system.

What do you think we’ll get?

Of course we’d get an American system with American health insurance companies rushing in to fill the void. These companies operate in the region of 30% profit margins and CEO’s are some of the highest paid globally. America health care providers are vastly profitable because it’s a guaranteed product that people will spend their last penny on. Highly lucrative for physicians too.

Canada does have a similar system to the uk so it’s possible to have nationally funded health care although American health care companies have tried for decades to undermine the Canadian system.

Plus, there are not too many success stories in the UK of formerly state run services that were privatised and became more efficient, better services, provided to consumers at lower prices. Funny how the efficiency of the ‘market’ and ‘competition’ disappears with commodities we cannot live without. Trains? Gas? Water… that one speaks for itself.

OP posts:
KnittedCardi · 03/06/2024 09:05

Haveyouseenmylemons · 02/06/2024 21:53

I have an issue with my taxes ending up as share holder profit AND that I have witnessed first hand the shoddy services private providers give. I’ve never seen it improve things.

Show quote history

It's the way the rest of Europe, and indeed most of the world operates. I can't understand why people in the UK think it can't work here.

Haveyouseenmylemons · 02/06/2024 21:53

unsync · 02/06/2024 03:03

If it is free at the point of delivery (which is what seems to cause most of MN angst) and also delivers value for money to the NHS, why do you have an issue with it? Private providers have been contracting to the NHS for years, and not just the Tory years either.

I have an issue with my taxes ending up as share holder profit AND that I have witnessed first hand the shoddy services private providers give. I’ve never seen it improve things.

Haveyouseenmylemons · 02/06/2024 21:51

YvonneBee · 27/05/2024 23:21

The NHS has been run down and defunded for years with too few staff and not enough beds. In the short term, outsourcing cuts waiting time and people are happy. Private hospitals are seen in a good light. In the long run, outsorcing to private companies is more expensive than treating in house and will drain the NHS of even more money. The NHS then fails completely over time and is fully privatised for private profit. Insurance becomes expensive and not everyone can afford to be covered - or have employers who will pay for it. As in USA, larger sums are spent and those without insurance go without or sell their homes to fund treatment. Unfortunately, both main parties are pushing this agenda. Money corrupts. So sad.

And only certain conditions and difficulties will get a good service.

I remember watching Sicko the film about the USA healthcare system and a baby died because the nearest hospital wasn’t covered by the parents insurance.

The reason Nye set it up was to create health equality. I fully support that. Tax payers money shouldn’t end up as share holder profit. It should all be reinvested IMO.

unsync · 02/06/2024 03:03

If it is free at the point of delivery (which is what seems to cause most of MN angst) and also delivers value for money to the NHS, why do you have an issue with it? Private providers have been contracting to the NHS for years, and not just the Tory years either.

Original poster
DrBlackbird · 02/06/2024 01:53

Saw this article to see that this doctor is also concerned. I’m just not convinced by these plans of labours. I think it will make the situation worse. It’s as if Labour are trying to suggest that the NHS problems can be solved by directing money to private providers. But this is a dishonest election ploy that is going to undermine the NHS further. It worries me that they believe the electorate is that naive.

Trust me, I’m a doctor – Labour’s prescription for the stricken NHS needs a rethink

Wes Streeting, the shadow health secretary, made a series of eyecatching pledges to launch Labour’s blueprint to rescue the NHS. But can the treatment plan work in practice? Dr Ammad Butt isn’t convinced

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/labour-nhs-reform-wes-streeting-election-2024-b2552570.html

OP posts:
HereForTheFreeLunch · 28/05/2024 08:44

I used to live in a Labour area (local council) - the council really pushed new builds and granted permission for all kinds of tiny little new builds, built by cronies of those in power.
Very similar to what the Tories did for Covid contracts.

In this regard there's not a lot to choose between the two. (i.e. govt contracts given to friends)

Fizzadora · 27/05/2024 23:24

Jc2001 · 27/05/2024 17:48

There's a difference between privatisation and using private companies.

Only when it's a Labour policy

YvonneBee · 27/05/2024 23:21

The NHS has been run down and defunded for years with too few staff and not enough beds. In the short term, outsourcing cuts waiting time and people are happy. Private hospitals are seen in a good light. In the long run, outsorcing to private companies is more expensive than treating in house and will drain the NHS of even more money. The NHS then fails completely over time and is fully privatised for private profit. Insurance becomes expensive and not everyone can afford to be covered - or have employers who will pay for it. As in USA, larger sums are spent and those without insurance go without or sell their homes to fund treatment. Unfortunately, both main parties are pushing this agenda. Money corrupts. So sad.

Grannywithnoplanny · 27/05/2024 22:52

marie3e · 27/05/2024 22:34

It's good in some ways, to just be able to order say inhalers for £10 each delivered to your door next day. And being private you can buy medications the NHS are stingy with

You're buying inhalers for £10? £9.90 is the cost of an NHS prescription. I think you've been had.

marie3e · 27/05/2024 22:34

It's good in some ways, to just be able to order say inhalers for £10 each delivered to your door next day. And being private you can buy medications the NHS are stingy with

CovertPiggery · 27/05/2024 22:25

frankentall · 27/05/2024 17:58

Tories are getting desparate.

You've got to laugh really!

Haveyouseenmylemons · 27/05/2024 22:21

DrBlackbird · 27/05/2024 17:44

A friend recently commented to me that Labour plans to continue to move the NHS further along the privatisation pathway. I’ve read the following in the FT:

Wes Streeting has said ..the precondition for additional funding would be reform, including through the rollout of new technologies and partnerships with cutting-edge private companies Also that Streeting has mentioned several times plans to use the private sector for hip, knee and eye surgeries funded by the NHS and dismisses concerns about using NHS funds to pay private providers.

The thought of further reform is concerning. Does anyone have any more information on Streeting’s plans? Or general thoughts? Please note, I am NOT denying the Tories have eviscerated NHS services. This is not a comparison between the Tories and Labour. Tories will lose the GE so it’s a moot point. More, anyone have thoughts on Labour’s planned approach.

Whilst Blair’s Labour did invest in the NHS there were some disastrous policy decisions eg the PFI. NHS trusts now spend £2bn a year financing debt on private finance initiative (PFI) projects. That was a New Labour initiative.

IABU = Move along. Nothing to worry about here.
IANBU = Streeting’s reforms could be like New Labour’s shambolic PFI

PFI was clearly a recipe for disaster. It was obvious at the time. I really hope Labour won’t go down a similar root. I abhor the idea of companies making profit from tax payers money. Every penny should be re-invested.

Maddy70 · 27/05/2024 22:18

The torys already have privitised a great deal

KnittedCardi · 27/05/2024 22:17

DrBlackbird · 27/05/2024 22:09

@KnittedCardi you don’t have to provide a treatise but something other than ‘nonsense’ would be helpful for clarification given that we know American health care companies eye up opportunities here in the uk.

Ok....
Forced to prescribe certain drugs. NICE issue protocols on drugs based on cost and efficacy.
MRI's. It is in fact completely the opposite of the explanation. The scanners are owned and run by the private companies. The NHS uses them during the day, the private companies pay "rent" to the NHS for the facility. They then use the scanners for private patients out of hours. It's a quid pro quo. Scanners cost millions and are generally not owned by the NHS.
Yes, government has signed contracts with private provides/insurers like BUPA, Nuffield and Circle Health for specific areas that have high need. It's actually very cost effective, pay per treatment. No extras.

MP's or Lords have no oversight of any NHS contracts. These are issued by the civil service or direct by hospitals and trusts.

OP posts:
Citrusandginger · 27/05/2024 22:06

There will be an expansion of private sector contracts, whichever shade of government get in.

The electoral decision for me is which party is likely to deliver the best in terms of overall healthcare for the next 5 years. I've worked in healthcare for over 30 years. It needs investment desperately.

KnittedCardi · 27/05/2024 21:51

LuluBlakey1 · 27/05/2024 21:33

The NHS is way down the road of privatisation. The Tories have been building partner ships with American private equity firms and insurance companies for the last 5 years. There are daily meetings about structures, deals, costs. We have no idea exactly what has been signed off and actioned. I know because I taught someone who was very clever and who now works for the Civil Service- he attends many of the meetings. He says it's shocking what has been signed as contracts and already actioned. The American Insurance Companies are linked to big pharmaceutical companies who win all ways. NHS will be forced to prescribe certain brands/drugs which are then billed to the insurance companies and reflected in premiums as well as charges to the British government. Guess who owns shares in these companies? MPs and House of Lords members- mainly Tories but not only Tories.
NHS consultants double deal- they limit their NHS practice and offer the same referral and treatment routes privately.
Drs and Nurses work for private 'Banks' where they do shifts that pay more than the NHS and the NHS is charges extortionately for. No commitment required to a job, just to a shift.
I'm not sure it is saveable.
Like many places you can wait 1 year plus for an MRI scan on the NHS where we live. Yet you can log on to a private company who use our local NHS hospital MRI scanner at night and weekends, refer yourself, pay about £250, get the scan within days and the report 2 days later. The service is staffed by the people who do the NHS scans- they just swop their bade to the company badge for the private shifts.

What a load of nonsense. You have no idea how the NHS contracts for drugs and services. There is so much incorrect with all of the above I don't know where to start.

Original poster
DrBlackbird · 27/05/2024 21:46

Again, the Tories are 100% to blame for 14 years of starving the NHS of funds not to mention it was the coalition govt who brought in the 2012 Health and Social care Act that significantly escalated the use of private health care providers. But doing more of the same is not going to be helpful.

OP posts:
Morph22010 · 27/05/2024 21:36

DrBlackbird · 27/05/2024 20:51

Didn’t know that there was one!

Quite a few snarky responses. If you read the OP, I’ve already agreed that Tories have run the NHS into the ground. My focus is looking ahead to Labour’s plan, which merits discussion ahead of the GE.

So yes please do be assured that I know that privatisation is already deeply embedded in the NHS and has been for decades. Private companies drawn to a deep public purse paired underpinned by an unavoidable need health on the one hand, with successive govts (including new labour) assuring us that markets solve everything on the other.

But isn’t that part of the problem? Private health care creams off the easy - and highly lucrative - care leaving complicated tertiary care to the NHS simultaneously luring doctors and nurses away from the NHS to better pay and well resourced private hospitals.

How is Streeting’s plan going to address NHS shortages by doing more of the same? That’s why I’m doubtful it’s the magic pill he’s selling it as.

Show quote history

It’s not a magic pill that going to make things wonderful, it will possibilty make things slightly less shite than now, or maybe we will continue and things will be just as shite as they are now, the alternative is things getting worse or even more worse

LuluBlakey1 · 27/05/2024 21:33

The NHS is way down the road of privatisation. The Tories have been building partner ships with American private equity firms and insurance companies for the last 5 years. There are daily meetings about structures, deals, costs. We have no idea exactly what has been signed off and actioned. I know because I taught someone who was very clever and who now works for the Civil Service- he attends many of the meetings. He says it's shocking what has been signed as contracts and already actioned. The American Insurance Companies are linked to big pharmaceutical companies who win all ways. NHS will be forced to prescribe certain brands/drugs which are then billed to the insurance companies and reflected in premiums as well as charges to the British government. Guess who owns shares in these companies? MPs and House of Lords members- mainly Tories but not only Tories.
NHS consultants double deal- they limit their NHS practice and offer the same referral and treatment routes privately.
Drs and Nurses work for private 'Banks' where they do shifts that pay more than the NHS and the NHS is charges extortionately for. No commitment required to a job, just to a shift.
I'm not sure it is saveable.
Like many places you can wait 1 year plus for an MRI scan on the NHS where we live. Yet you can log on to a private company who use our local NHS hospital MRI scanner at night and weekends, refer yourself, pay about £250, get the scan within days and the report 2 days later. The service is staffed by the people who do the NHS scans- they just swop their bade to the company badge for the private shifts.

FairIsleCromartyForties · 27/05/2024 21:18

Some private sector companies offer an excellent service for patients. One obvious example would be the ability to order sexual health test kits online, and get rapid results via text. One region I worked in introduced this service and it transformed patience experience. It's not as simple as NHS=good, private=bad.