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Original poster

Wedding without marriage

289 replies

DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 13:37

My cousin who lives in North East England was supposed to be getting married next month.

Attending won't be cheap, but we were looking forward to celebrating Anna's and James' special day.

They will have all the trappings of an extravagant wedding. They are not wealthy and have taken out a large loan to pay for for it.

The bride and groom asked guests to give them money for their honeymoon in the Caribbean instead of gifts. We were happy to do that and sent them £300 a few weeks ago.

They originally intended to have the legal marriage ceremony in their local registry office a day or two before the wedding celebration and a non-legal humanist ceremony on the day. I know this is a fairly common thing nowadays and had no problem with it.

I found out last night Anna and James have decided to have the legal ceremony while on honeymoon, not before the "wedding". I wouldn't see this as too much of a problem if they were going straight on honeymoon from the wedding, but they are not.

It turns out that they haven't even booked the honeymoon yet and intend to go "sometime next year".

The "wedding" next month will go ahead exactly as planned. The bride and groom do not intend to tell guests that they won't actually be married. The only reason I know is because my aunt is very upset and told her sister (my mum).

I know that a few members of the family are stretching financially to attend this "wedding" for a couple that will not be married at the end of it and probably won't be married for as much as 18 months after it.

Am I being unreasonable for being angry about this. That we have been deceived into attending a sham wedding?

OP posts:
Jimbojobsworth · 28/05/2024 18:10

Who cares if they are that sly then the marriage won't last as they are both being deceitful to all friends and family who in turn have all been ripped off financially

Totemoneru · 28/05/2024 18:08

WrylyAmused · 27/05/2024 15:03

To throw an opposing view in... While they probably should tell people the reality of what's going on, I couldn't get this excited about it.

I'm with @Albatrossing that a wedding is to demonstrate, declare and celebrate your relationship in front of friends and family - people don't have this weird response to, for example, non legally binding Islamic weddings. They might tell the parties to make sure they have/get the legal protection a legal marriage gives, but no-one claims it's a sham.

Getting hung up on legalities which have nothing to do with you if you're not part of the couple seems very odd to me.

Equally, being upset about having gifted them something - you freely choose to gift, to celebrate their lives together. Why is it contingent on a legal contract you have no part of? And which has a 40% failure rate anyway...

You knew it would be spent on the "honeymoon", which is still just a fancy holiday. Especially given that most couples live together before marriage these days anyway, so it's not exactly like they wouldn't have been on holiday together previously.

Ditto the commitment part - joint finances, mortgages, children often precede marriage these days anyway, so it's not exactly the commitment it once was, start of a whole new life together away from the birth families.

And second and subsequent marriages are also commonly celebrated - where there's evidence the previous marriage relationships didn't work out, but no-one usually gets upset about that.

Bit odd, none of my business, shrug, enjoy the party, move on with life.

And... Would someone please explain why you wouldn't now go to the party? You've already sent the gift, so even if you thought it was cheeky of them, why wouldn't you go celebrate & enjoy the party? Presumably you're still friends with them....?

I agree completely!

How can you be sure anyone gets legally married at any wedding really? They're often a ceremony (or as people here would say...fake, a sham, a con) that isn't legally binding. That's often done elsewhere at another time.

You're there to celebrate 2 people making a public declaration that they want to spend their lives together.

All of these comments seem so judgemental and conditional. Why do the presents and presence have so many conditions?

Don't give gifts and don't attend if you don't agree with the pairing or if you believe that it'll all end in tears in a year. Otherwise why fuss?

lucindasspunkyfunkyvoice · 28/05/2024 18:05

What a pair of dicks

WindyAnna · 28/05/2024 18:02

We didn't get legally married at our wedding. We decided the night before just to bethroth ourselves to each other, the registrar was being unnecessarily difficult and we decided to cancel her. We explained to people as they arrived that we'd be legally marrying later, with the exception of 1 family member everyone was fine about it. Everyone had a great day. We had a ceremony, just not a legal one, my Dad did a reading, my daughter did a reading, two friends ran the ceremony and me and (my now) DH made vows we had written. We got married legally the following year at a local RO with a much nicer registrar and 2 witnesses.

I don't consider it to have been a "sham" wedding, it's the one we celebrate the anniversary of (when we remember, we are a bit rubbish at that). Everyone has said what a fabulous day it was - 20+ years later people mention our brilliant "non-wedding", even the person who initially had a problem with it.

Each to their own, it's a shame that you have had to stretch yourself for it but try to enjoy the day for what it is.

LAMPS1 · 28/05/2024 18:01

I think it matters very much that they are planning to dupe their guests.
I wouldn’t be happy with this fake event at all. It’s meaningless, except to swoon over the cheating couple. No wonder your aunt feels the humiliation of it all.

If they think it’s nobody’s business whether or not the sham ceremony is legal then what business do the gusts have being there at all……is it just to celebrate having handed the money over that they have been asked for.
It isn’t a wedding you have been invited to, it’s a commercial event.

I’d tell these fraudsters that you will celebrate with them when they decide to make and honour their marriage vows. And happily be witness to that solemn declaration. But until then, you need the three hundred quid back in your own account to gather a bit of interest/to pay your bills.

Sennelier1 · 28/05/2024 17:59

If two people love each other and declare their love for eachother in whatever ceremony they choose then in my eyes they are married. Be it a civil partnership, an exchange of vows or whatever, to me they're married. The legal part is only a formality. Nothing to do with how people feel.

CultOfRamen · 28/05/2024 17:58

Albatrossing · 27/05/2024 15:01

yes, there are good reasons (but outing as i said upthread). Everyone i've told so far has just been really happy for us and happy to celebrate with us. I can see people on this thread think it's wrong though, and that's helpful to know and to think through who doesn't know.

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i fail to see how it’s outing unless you give details.
if it’s not divorce, you could just say immigration issue or I’m currently in jail, if you were the only person experiencing the issue it’s u likely there would be a law preventing you from getting married!!

Jeezitneverends · 28/05/2024 17:53

@Getonwitit celebrant, but I’m in Scotland so celebrants can do the whole legal thing-no need for a registrar as well

Getonwitit · 28/05/2024 17:52

Jeezitneverends · 27/05/2024 14:12

Celebrants most certainly can perform a legally binding marriage ceremony-I’ve been to several and the celebrant has made a point of saying (words to the effect) “this is the legal part”

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Was it a Celebrant or a Registrar ?

C8H10N4O2 · 28/05/2024 17:48

Are the bride and groom Tracey and Jazzer?

I've attended wedding celebrations in the past which had no legal component. They were celebrating a commitment to each other for life. I had no problem celebrating that with them in the form they chose.

lilkitten · 28/05/2024 17:48

To me it's sound like a celebration of a relationship, I thought it's quite common to have ceremonies that celebrate you as a couple committing to each other? I don't see how them choosing to not legally be bound as a unit makes a difference. I am married, but in hindsight I see that I really spent a load of money on a celebration, not on becoming married - I could have done that cheaply at the registry office if I just wanted a legal connection. Really we spend the money on celebrating the couple's relationship

Snugglemonkey · 28/05/2024 17:38

DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 13:53

You've almost hit the point that's occurred to me. A lot can happen in 18 months, will they actually get married at all?

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Does it matter? I would not care tbh.

Abouttimeforanamechange · 28/05/2024 16:11

The point is you get to celebrate with them.

Celebrate what? The point of a wedding is to celebrate a marriage. There is no marriage, so what is being celebrated?

LakieLady · 28/05/2024 15:38

BananaLambo · 27/05/2024 14:52

The whole point of a wedding is the legal bit. That’s the bit that creates a legal partnership between two people with rights and responsibilities in terms of property and joint children. The rest is just fluff. Once you strip away the flowers and cars and party and dresses and all the rest of the gumph, the only thing that’s important is the legally binding marriage certificate. If that’s not happening then there’s no point in going, unless you’re desperate to go to a big, expensive, party.

Yep, I'm pretty sure the dictionary definition of a wedding includes the word marriage.

If there's no marriage, it's not a wedding, it's a party.

marmiteoneverything · 28/05/2024 15:34

Albatrossing · 27/05/2024 14:44

annoyingly it's too outing to give the reason. I've told my close friends and family that we can't do the legal bit and they understand that. Maybe we should tell everyone. i'll have a think!

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I think you should have told everyone, yes. As important as it might be to you, it’s a party not a wedding and I think it’s important to make that clear if you’re expecting people to travel/spend money/use up AL etc.

Are you having another celebration in 9 months time, or are you literally just going to a registry office with two witnesses? If it’s the latter then I’d probably keep quiet as it’s all been arranged.

shearwater2 · 28/05/2024 15:33

I don't understand why people care or bother about this, nor whether the couple stays together after any ceremony, "wedding" or not.

Unless it was a very close relative I would not want to travel overseas and spend all that money on someone's actual wedding. I would find that personally a lot more selfish and difficult a request than what this couple are actually doing, getting married at home, even if it is "married".

You give a card, money or gift, you go to the wedding or "wedding". It's the same whatever whether they have their honeymoon or actual ceremony straight after or a year after.

If they split up, so what. What are you going to do, ask for a refund?

If they ask for more money or attendance at future ceremonies just feel free to say no at that point.

Jeezitneverends · 28/05/2024 15:31

So this party is basically a crowdfunded for them to get married abroad at some point…which may or may not happen

Nanny0gg · 28/05/2024 15:26

DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 13:51

I'm not sure that was the original intention, but that's how it feels.

It seems ridiculously self-indulgent to have a "wedding" without actually getting married. I would understand if the legal ceremony was within a week either side, but as things stand, there is no solid plan to actually get married.

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And what if they break up?

StoneAgeRed · 28/05/2024 15:21

mindutopia · 27/05/2024 14:29

It’s weird. The point of a wedding is to celebrate the marriage. If the marriage isn’t happening for maybe another 2 years, it’s bonkers to have a wedding.

Fwiw, we had a humanist wedding that wasn’t legally binding, but we had our actual legal registry wedding the same day in the morning. We wanted the humanist ceremony, but needed to sort the legals out too. Our wedding party came to the registry one, then we had our humanist ceremony with everyone and the party celebrated both.

That said, I know someone who has had not one, not two, but THREE weddings without a marriage. Her partner won’t marry her for financial reasons (concerned about protecting his assets), so they have somehow over the years thrown three ‘weddings’ white dress, bridesmaids, reception, dancing, the lot! She’s anxious I think about her image as an unmarried woman and keeps doing these big showy weddings to make a point about how committed they really are to each other. I think everyone is pretty fed up after the third one though.

Edited

This is CRAZY!

afaloren · 28/05/2024 15:21

We had our legal ceremony the day before our wedding so I don’t think it necessarily has to happen on the same day. But this is way over that! They’re basically having a party and asking you to give them an abroad wedding as a present!

Tagyoureit · 28/05/2024 15:17

Seems crazy to get a massive loan to pay for an extravagant wedding but then not actually get married, start "married" life with massive debt then throw children in to that mix.

I don't think the bride will ever get the groom down that aisle! And I don't think your 300 quid will be spent on a honeymoon either.

shearwater2 · 28/05/2024 15:07

It wouldn't matter to me whether it was legally binding or not. Most religious ceremonies other than Christian are not legally binding. It's up to the couple to sort out the legalities. I've never given anyone £300 or spent anywhere near that on a wedding gift. The point is you get to celebrate with them. A lot better than asking everyone to pay to come to the legal ceremony abroad, which would cost a lot more than a gift.

Hadalifeonce · 28/05/2024 15:07

When they do the 'legal' bit, at some unspecified date in the future, will they remember that their guests have already given wedding presents, or will they expect more?

Pherian · 28/05/2024 15:02

Iwasafool · 28/05/2024 14:58

Don't you usually give a gift for a wedding or even an engagement party? I don't think the OPs £300 is paying for a lavish party plus holiday abroad and the OP didn't suggest they asked for £300, she could have sent a tenner.

Show quote history

The OP states "The bride and groom asked guests to give them money for their honeymoon in the Caribbean instead of gifts. We were happy to do that and sent them £300 a few weeks ago."

Iwasafool · 28/05/2024 14:58

Pherian · 28/05/2024 10:44

You're not being unreasonable. It's rather odd that they aren't getting married. I have friends who had two weddings one in the UK and one in Vegas to get married by Elvis. They could afford it though and weren't asking for gifts or taking loans. I thought that was extravagant, but it wasn't my money. In this case, it is your money and seems it's being sought under false pretences.

Don't you usually give a gift for a wedding or even an engagement party? I don't think the OPs £300 is paying for a lavish party plus holiday abroad and the OP didn't suggest they asked for £300, she could have sent a tenner.

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