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Original poster

Wedding without marriage

289 replies

DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 13:37

My cousin who lives in North East England was supposed to be getting married next month.

Attending won't be cheap, but we were looking forward to celebrating Anna's and James' special day.

They will have all the trappings of an extravagant wedding. They are not wealthy and have taken out a large loan to pay for for it.

The bride and groom asked guests to give them money for their honeymoon in the Caribbean instead of gifts. We were happy to do that and sent them £300 a few weeks ago.

They originally intended to have the legal marriage ceremony in their local registry office a day or two before the wedding celebration and a non-legal humanist ceremony on the day. I know this is a fairly common thing nowadays and had no problem with it.

I found out last night Anna and James have decided to have the legal ceremony while on honeymoon, not before the "wedding". I wouldn't see this as too much of a problem if they were going straight on honeymoon from the wedding, but they are not.

It turns out that they haven't even booked the honeymoon yet and intend to go "sometime next year".

The "wedding" next month will go ahead exactly as planned. The bride and groom do not intend to tell guests that they won't actually be married. The only reason I know is because my aunt is very upset and told her sister (my mum).

I know that a few members of the family are stretching financially to attend this "wedding" for a couple that will not be married at the end of it and probably won't be married for as much as 18 months after it.

Am I being unreasonable for being angry about this. That we have been deceived into attending a sham wedding?

OP posts:
Original poster
DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 16:48

Did they specifically ask for £300 or did they just ask for money in general?

They just asked for money towards their honeymoon. I decided £100 from each of the three of us was reasonable (for a wedding, not an engagement party).

OP posts:
greenpolarbear · 27/05/2024 16:22

Did they specifically ask for £300 or did they just ask for money in general?

I think normally people are overreacting about these situations, they want you to celebrate their marriage and either you want to do that or you don't so who cares about the legal part. But in this situation it does sound like you're all paying for their actual wedding abroad.

I know a couple who got "married" abroad and it wasn't legally binding in the UK. He didn't want to be married but she kept going on about it so he did it to shut her up. She went around telling everyone he was her husband, he went around still shagging whoever he liked. They broke up eventually.

MrsLeonFarrell · 27/05/2024 16:22

I wouldn't call what they are doing a wedding, I'd call it a holiday fund raising party. It seems odd to take out a loan they probably can't afford for the party bit then ask the guests to fund a holiday. Why not do the destination wedding and have a lovely BBQ for family and friends, they could even have the traditional mumsnet massive salads and chilli and avoid debt.

It's things like this that make me feel old.

Original poster
DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 16:03

I don't know why the couple have decided not to have the legal ceremony before the "wedding".

Despite living several hundred miles apart now, my cousin and I grew up in the same town and we're quite close.

I will ask her why they have changed their arrangements, but not yet. I only know because my aunt felt the need to confide in my mother. My cousin doesn't know that I know.

In fairness, I don't think it was to get a free holiday. The "wedding" is costing them considerably more than the honeymoon. If saving money was their objective, they could have just had the wedding abroad and a party on their return.

I think and hope that it's a romantic notion of just the two of them "eloping" and having a private ceremony somewhere beautiful and they have failed to see the wider implications.

We will attend the "wedding". I have never said we won't. That doesn't mean I'm not disappointed that it isn't what we thought it would be. Our accommodation (over £1,000 for three of us) is nonrefundable and we will at least have the opportunity to catch up with family we don't see often.

However, if we had been invited in the first place to an engagement party rather than a wedding, it would have been an entirely different thing. Also, I know a lot of my family members are stretching themselves financially to attend this "wedding".

OP posts:
unsync · 27/05/2024 15:56

My ex did this, organised a big wedding abroad circa £30k. People flying out, hotels, white dress, bridesmaids, the whole shebang. Service conducted in foreign language. Not sure if they told people it was fake, not even their families. We were still married as he dragged out the divorce. Still, it didn't impress the Judge, so worked in my favour.

Notreat · 27/05/2024 15:45

Albatrossing · 27/05/2024 14:44

annoyingly it's too outing to give the reason. I've told my close friends and family that we can't do the legal bit and they understand that. Maybe we should tell everyone. i'll have a think!

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I think you should I would be annoyed if I thought I was going to a wedding when the actual wedding isn't until the year after.
In your situation I would postpone the celebration until you can actually get married.

burnoutbabe · 27/05/2024 15:44

One could hold a "together 20 years" party if you chose not to marry (14 years and counting here)

And it would be nice to hold an event and have dad make a speech about us.

But I'd not try and pretend it's a wedding as we are choosing not to marry.

MalagaNights · 27/05/2024 15:38

A wedding is a marriage ceremony and celebration of the public commitment to the institution of marriage.

If they're not getting married it's not a wedding.

It may be a celebration of their love for each other & their personal commitment and it may imitate the traditions of a wedding, but it isn't a wedding.

Marriage is a very particular thing. It's legal and binding and a key institution of our society.

If people want a 'celebration of our love party' they should find a term for that otherwise it does seem like they are misleading people.

Iwasafool · 27/05/2024 15:35

BananaLambo · 27/05/2024 14:52

The whole point of a wedding is the legal bit. That’s the bit that creates a legal partnership between two people with rights and responsibilities in terms of property and joint children. The rest is just fluff. Once you strip away the flowers and cars and party and dresses and all the rest of the gumph, the only thing that’s important is the legally binding marriage certificate. If that’s not happening then there’s no point in going, unless you’re desperate to go to a big, expensive, party.

No to everyone, people view these things through their own beliefs. I'm a Catholic and I've got relatives who don't think the legal bit is the point of the wedding as to them the religious bit is the most important. I know Muslims who feel the same and don't always bother with the legal bit.

Iwasafool · 27/05/2024 15:30

DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 14:22

Isn't the whole point of a wedding to celebrate the marriage of two people? I have no problem with a non-legal ceremony on the wedding day as long as the legal ceremony takes place (preferably) before the wedding or a few days after.

If there is no marriage, it can't be called a wedding. It's a fancy party.

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Are they still having a humanist ceremony? If they are I can't say it would bother me, to them it is their wedding, if you don't want to celebrate with them don't go.

StormingNorman · 27/05/2024 15:29

It’s just a party. The wedding celebrates the marriage. If there is no marriage there is nothing to celebrate. They probably need to do the registry office bit anyway with a destination wedding so no reason they can’t get that out the way before the wedding and then have their destination wedding in a year or two as planned. The only reason for not doing the legal marriage is because they aren’t ready to commit yet. It’s a sham.

RamaSita · 27/05/2024 15:27

A secular wedding is two things in our society and culture in the UK, a party to celebrate two people's commitment to each other, and a legal contract. (If you're religious there's obviously a different slant on the whole thing, a third element if you will). Yes the legal contract has importance in its own right, i'm married myself so I know why I wanted to have that aspect in my own wedding, but surely coming together for them to publicly declare and you to bear witness to their love and commitment is worthwhile in its own right? Why doesn't that deserve a party and a card and a thoughtful present? Perhaps you shouldn't have sent them so much money for a start, because in any other context why would you pay for someone else's holiday? Seems that's one of the main things causing you offence.

Furthermore, why should only those couples who get legally married be celebrated by a big bash and get lots of attention and presents? Why not other committed long term partners? To me they're as good as married anyway.

It's a shame that we only tend to celebrate quite traditional 'achievements' because then it's more likely that some people will go all their lives without an engagement party or a wedding or a hen do or a baby shower or a christening and I think it's a shame if they miss out on being celebrated as much as the people that do get lucky enough to have all those things. And I'm speaking as someone who has had most of those events! I just don't see why others need miss out altogether.

innerdesign · 27/05/2024 15:25

Jeezitneverends · 27/05/2024 15:14

Ah-I’m in Scotland …so outwith Scotland it’s just a farce then

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Outwith Scotland (good Scottish word, 'outwith'!) it can still be nice to have a more personal humanist ceremony, but I do agree the legalities should be dealt with beforehand ideally, and later that week at latest (just my opinion). I went to a wedding where a close family member did the ceremony and a registrar was present to do the legalities, so it was still legally binding despite the family member not being a registered celebrant. Seems a good compromise.

Original poster
DelythBeautyQueen · 27/05/2024 15:19

Albatrossing · 27/05/2024 15:01

yes, there are good reasons (but outing as i said upthread). Everyone i've told so far has just been really happy for us and happy to celebrate with us. I can see people on this thread think it's wrong though, and that's helpful to know and to think through who doesn't know.

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What are they celebrating with you? Your promise to each other to get married at some specified or unspecified day in the future?

Back in the old days that was called an engagement party. The wedding was the bit when you actually got married.

The old traditions have had to change a bit, because fewer people get married in church, but for it to be a proper wedding the couple do have to actually get married on the day or a few days either side of the "wedding".

OP posts:
StormingNorman · 27/05/2024 15:17

Albatrossing · 27/05/2024 14:44

annoyingly it's too outing to give the reason. I've told my close friends and family that we can't do the legal bit and they understand that. Maybe we should tell everyone. i'll have a think!

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You should tell everyone.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/05/2024 15:15

WrylyAmused · 27/05/2024 15:03

To throw an opposing view in... While they probably should tell people the reality of what's going on, I couldn't get this excited about it.

I'm with @Albatrossing that a wedding is to demonstrate, declare and celebrate your relationship in front of friends and family - people don't have this weird response to, for example, non legally binding Islamic weddings. They might tell the parties to make sure they have/get the legal protection a legal marriage gives, but no-one claims it's a sham.

Getting hung up on legalities which have nothing to do with you if you're not part of the couple seems very odd to me.

Equally, being upset about having gifted them something - you freely choose to gift, to celebrate their lives together. Why is it contingent on a legal contract you have no part of? And which has a 40% failure rate anyway...

You knew it would be spent on the "honeymoon", which is still just a fancy holiday. Especially given that most couples live together before marriage these days anyway, so it's not exactly like they wouldn't have been on holiday together previously.

Ditto the commitment part - joint finances, mortgages, children often precede marriage these days anyway, so it's not exactly the commitment it once was, start of a whole new life together away from the birth families.

And second and subsequent marriages are also commonly celebrated - where there's evidence the previous marriage relationships didn't work out, but no-one usually gets upset about that.

Bit odd, none of my business, shrug, enjoy the party, move on with life.

And... Would someone please explain why you wouldn't now go to the party? You've already sent the gift, so even if you thought it was cheeky of them, why wouldn't you go celebrate & enjoy the party? Presumably you're still friends with them....?

I agree.

Either the OP likes the couple enough to want to go along, or she doesn't. Nothing else is really relevant.

Jeezitneverends · 27/05/2024 15:14

innerdesign · 27/05/2024 14:14

Depends where you marry - they can in Scotland, not in England. I was going to say, we had a humanist wedding with a celebrant (legally binding as Scotland) but he warned us that he cannot dupe the guests, and if we missed the deadline for paperwork he could not pretend he was legally marrying us, it would be make clear it was a non-binding ceremony. So I'd be surprised if any of the guests are fooled.

Edited
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Ah-I’m in Scotland …so outwith Scotland it’s just a farce then

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 27/05/2024 15:13

Thepinkyponkc · 27/05/2024 13:45

Hmm so really … they are asking everyone to fund their wedding abroad?! They are having an abroad wedding but by having a pre party here and asking for money to pay for their abroad wedding they get it paid for… quite clever really 🤣

I mean I suppose it makes no odds to you either way as you’re going to their wedding party and it won’t be twice. But that’s what they’ve done- they’ve decided to marry abroad and everyone else fund it.

Not really.... because they are paying for the big non-wedding party themselves, so what they are doing isn't exactly saving them any money. (The OP said, "They are not wealthy and have taken out a large loan to pay for for it.")

To those asking what the point is - what's the point of any big party? This is just a big party, which the couple are paying for.

It's up to guests whether or not they are happy to attend or give gifts in the circumstances - so it will probably come down to how much they like the couple.

Lifelong · 27/05/2024 15:07

I can well imagine your aunts mortification.
If they hadn't asked for £300, it wouldn't be so bad.
But I would imagine you won't be the only invitee's who will feel duped and that they are major CF's.

Weedoormatnomore · 27/05/2024 15:07

Lots of marriages end in divorce before 9 or 18mths maybe it's a new fad to save on divorce fees.

Out of curiosity how long do people on married at first site have to be pretend married before they can legally marry?
Just the wedding with not actually getting married makes me thing of that program.

burnoutbabe · 27/05/2024 15:07

DanielGault · 27/05/2024 13:50

It's really cringe AF. But it doesn't actually make a difference to you does it? I think it calls for an internal eyeroll (and open a book on how long the marriage lasts 😂)

But they may actually never marry? A lot can happen in 18 months.

OpusGiemuJavlo · 27/05/2024 15:06

Yanbu.
Unless you can attend their non-wedding party at minimal expense, I think I wouldn't go. Let them know you wish them all the best but as the party isn't their wedding in any sense it's not going to be a priority to attend it.

NCfor24 · 27/05/2024 15:05

innerdesign · 27/05/2024 14:14

Depends where you marry - they can in Scotland, not in England. I was going to say, we had a humanist wedding with a celebrant (legally binding as Scotland) but he warned us that he cannot dupe the guests, and if we missed the deadline for paperwork he could not pretend he was legally marrying us, it would be make clear it was a non-binding ceremony. So I'd be surprised if any of the guests are fooled.

Edited
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Was basically going to say this. In England and Wales the guests must not be led to believe they are witnesses to a legally binding marriage ceremony.

WrylyAmused · 27/05/2024 15:03

To throw an opposing view in... While they probably should tell people the reality of what's going on, I couldn't get this excited about it.

I'm with @Albatrossing that a wedding is to demonstrate, declare and celebrate your relationship in front of friends and family - people don't have this weird response to, for example, non legally binding Islamic weddings. They might tell the parties to make sure they have/get the legal protection a legal marriage gives, but no-one claims it's a sham.

Getting hung up on legalities which have nothing to do with you if you're not part of the couple seems very odd to me.

Equally, being upset about having gifted them something - you freely choose to gift, to celebrate their lives together. Why is it contingent on a legal contract you have no part of? And which has a 40% failure rate anyway...

You knew it would be spent on the "honeymoon", which is still just a fancy holiday. Especially given that most couples live together before marriage these days anyway, so it's not exactly like they wouldn't have been on holiday together previously.

Ditto the commitment part - joint finances, mortgages, children often precede marriage these days anyway, so it's not exactly the commitment it once was, start of a whole new life together away from the birth families.

And second and subsequent marriages are also commonly celebrated - where there's evidence the previous marriage relationships didn't work out, but no-one usually gets upset about that.

Bit odd, none of my business, shrug, enjoy the party, move on with life.

And... Would someone please explain why you wouldn't now go to the party? You've already sent the gift, so even if you thought it was cheeky of them, why wouldn't you go celebrate & enjoy the party? Presumably you're still friends with them....?

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/05/2024 15:02

I know two couples who didn't get married after planning weddings. Forking out for them to start to plan to get married is an engagement party/present. And typically that's smaller and cheaper than a wedding/present.

If they're waiting indefinitely, I'm not sure they will get married. It will all be mortifying for your aunt.