Wedding without marriage

DelythBeautyQueen · 2024-05-27T12:37:12+00:00

My cousin who lives in North East England was supposed to be getting married next month. Attending won't be cheap, but we were looking forward to celebrating Anna's and James' special day. They will have all the trappings of an extravagant wedding. They are not wealthy and have taken out a large loan to pay for for it. The bride and groom asked guests to give them money for their honeymoon in the Caribbean instead of gifts. We were happy to do that and sent them £300 a few weeks ago. They originally intended to have the legal marriage ceremony in their local registry office a day or two before the wedding celebration and a non-legal humanist ceremony on the day. I know this is a fairly common thing nowadays and had no problem with it. I found out last night Anna and James have decided to have the legal ceremony while on honeymoon, not before the "wedding". I wouldn't see this as too much of a problem if they were going straight on honeymoon from the wedding, but they are not. It turns out that they haven't even booked the honeymoon yet and intend to go "sometime next year". The "wedding" next month will go ahead exactly as planned. The bride and groom do not intend to tell guests that they won't actually be married. The only reason I know is because my aunt is very upset and told her sister (my mum). I know that a few members of the family are stretching financially to attend this "wedding" for a couple that will not be married at the end of it and probably won't be married for as much as 18 months after it. Am I being unreasonable for being angry about this. That we have been deceived into attending a sham wedding?

PBandJ111 · 09/07/2024 06:41

I think they are out of order as they’re not doing what has been communicated, he, get married. Bit of a swizz.

PardonSmardon · 09/07/2024 02:56

So they had a logical reason for things … mixed up planning. I find it a bit over the top that everyone’s been so judgy.

PardonSmardon · 09/07/2024 02:51

I can’t see the point of getting upset over this, they are still getting married but with different timings so there will still be a wedding and celebration regardless.

Original poster

DelythBeautyQueen · 08/07/2024 23:25

Wotcher · 08/07/2024 22:59

Surely that’s not a honeymoon then, it’s just a holiday! 🤣

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I agree, but I'm so relieved it all worked out I'm prepared to ignore that detail! 🤣

OP posts:

Wotcher · 08/07/2024 22:59

DelythBeautyQueen · 08/07/2024 18:06

There have a few (happy) developments since I started this thread.

A few family members got to hear what the couple intended and after a few words they realised that the plan wasn't going to go down well with most people.

It turns out that while planning their honeymoon and looking at wedding and honeymoon packages, they got a bit carried away by the romance of it all and wanted to get married there (I know, I don't really understand it either). When they realised how it looked to other people they decided to go back to the original plan.

As they had to give notice to get married in the registry office, they were unable to have the ceremony before the wedding, but managed to book it for 10 days after.

We attended the celebration last month and had a lovely weekend. The couple went to the registry office last week with two witnesses and are now legally married.

The honeymoon, to which we were happy to contribute is booked for next May.

Edited

Surely that’s not a honeymoon then, it’s just a holiday! 🤣

Wotcher · 08/07/2024 22:57

innerdesign · 08/07/2024 16:37

Arguably it is, it's against the law for the person performing the ceremony to pretend it's legally binding if it isn't

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Not to the guests! 😩😂😂😂

Tagyoureit · 08/07/2024 19:03

Thanks for the update

RampantIvy · 08/07/2024 18:23

Great update @DelythBeautyQueen

Original poster

DelythBeautyQueen · 08/07/2024 18:06

There have a few (happy) developments since I started this thread.

A few family members got to hear what the couple intended and after a few words they realised that the plan wasn't going to go down well with most people.

It turns out that while planning their honeymoon and looking at wedding and honeymoon packages, they got a bit carried away by the romance of it all and wanted to get married there (I know, I don't really understand it either). When they realised how it looked to other people they decided to go back to the original plan.

As they had to give notice to get married in the registry office, they were unable to have the ceremony before the wedding, but managed to book it for 10 days after.

We attended the celebration last month and had a lovely weekend. The couple went to the registry office last week with two witnesses and are now legally married.

The honeymoon, to which we were happy to contribute is booked for next May.

OP posts:

Caroparo52 · 08/07/2024 16:56

Big smart party for a woman wearing a white dress who then nips off for holiday of a lifetime paid for by you all. Repeat. Brilliant. They should make a film of it
😅😅😅😅

innerdesign · 08/07/2024 16:37

Wotcher · 08/07/2024 16:13

“Fraudulent” 😂😂😂😂😂

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Arguably it is, it's against the law for the person performing the ceremony to pretend it's legally binding if it isn't

Wotcher · 08/07/2024 16:13

HouseofPies · 08/07/2024 13:48

Because it’s fraudulent to call it a wedding ceremony if they aren’t getting married.

They can call it a commitment ceremony if they’d prefer but I suspect that many guests wouldn’t attend in that case or they’d attend but definitely not spend £200 on a gift for the party hosts in that instance. A couple of bottles of wine tops.

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“Fraudulent” 😂😂😂😂😂

HouseofPies · 08/07/2024 13:48

Wotcher · 20/06/2024 15:09

I’m never sure why people get so het up about this.

It’s just a contract. Someone else’s contract. It neither matters to, nor affects you whether it exists or not, it applies only to them.

If you go to a wedding you’re just agreeing to attend a formal party with friends and family to celebrate a relationship. You’re still doing that. Who cares?

Because it’s fraudulent to call it a wedding ceremony if they aren’t getting married.

They can call it a commitment ceremony if they’d prefer but I suspect that many guests wouldn’t attend in that case or they’d attend but definitely not spend £200 on a gift for the party hosts in that instance. A couple of bottles of wine tops.

Wotcher · 20/06/2024 15:09

I’m never sure why people get so het up about this.

It’s just a contract. Someone else’s contract. It neither matters to, nor affects you whether it exists or not, it applies only to them.

If you go to a wedding you’re just agreeing to attend a formal party with friends and family to celebrate a relationship. You’re still doing that. Who cares?

Mrsmartass · 20/06/2024 14:57

Err except they can change there minds pocket the money and be gone lol

BillyWhitney · 01/06/2024 12:55

innerdesign · 01/06/2024 12:21

@BillyWhitney I saw @TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled 's post before it was deleted and you've either misinterpreted it or are trying to stir up outrage. She didn't say gay relationships were 'pretend relationships', but that non-legal weddings are 'pretend marriages'. It sounds like what you're referring to would be more like commitment ceremonies. Thank goodness those days are behind us and everyone in the UK has the right to marry.

I neither misunderstood nor am I interested in stirring up outrage.

The fact that commitment ceremonies were/are not legal marriages is not open to interpretation- they aren’t.

The fact that there are other facets to a ‘marriage’ is also true- there are elements of love, commitment, friendship, teamwork, parenting, mutual support and respect etc- and they all exist in the same way in gay relationships or faith marriages as they do in legal marriages.

One is more legal than the other- but non of them are pretend.

If you care to check my first post simply said that some thinking was reductionist- which reducing entire relationships to nothing but a marriage certificate is.

innerdesign · 01/06/2024 12:21

@BillyWhitney I saw @TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled 's post before it was deleted and you've either misinterpreted it or are trying to stir up outrage. She didn't say gay relationships were 'pretend relationships', but that non-legal weddings are 'pretend marriages'. It sounds like what you're referring to would be more like commitment ceremonies. Thank goodness those days are behind us and everyone in the UK has the right to marry.

BillyWhitney · 01/06/2024 11:14

TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled · 01/06/2024 10:57

Declaring your relationship publicly did not give gay couples equal marriage rights, which is why equal marriage rights was absolutely crucial. Declaring your love publicly for anyone is not the same as a marriage. Because of those legal rights. It isnt a legal marriage. Accepting a wedding without legal rights does not lead to equality. Fighting for marriage equality did.

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Accepting a wedding without legal rights does not lead to equality. Fighting for marriage equality did

No one is denying that, I don’t know why you keep repeating it.

Stop the press! Non legal marriages aren’t legal!

That still doesn’t justify characterising gay relationships as “pretend” because they had a ceremony that was meaningful to them but not legal.

Neither does having such a ceremony preclude fighting for equal marriage rights- do you think gay couples who had some kind of relationship blessing then lost interest in actually getting married? What about people who had civil partnerships? Did we all decide a second class ‘marriage’ was good enough for us? Some did obviously, just as some straight couples have handfastings or don’t ever marry or whatever- but a massive number continued to fight for equality whilst in their “pretend” marriages… as you would expect really.

TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled · 01/06/2024 10:57

BillyWhitney · 31/05/2024 22:18

Saying gay relationships are lesser (the word used was ‘pretend’) because they were denied the same legal rights as heterosexual couples is not ok.

That is not remotely the same as saying women should know that legal marriage gives them legal protections that they otherwise have.

One is common sense, the other is homophobia.

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Declaring your relationship publicly did not give gay couples equal marriage rights, which is why equal marriage rights was absolutely crucial. Declaring your love publicly for anyone is not the same as a marriage. Because of those legal rights. It isnt a legal marriage. Accepting a wedding without legal rights does not lead to equality. Fighting for marriage equality did.

RampantIvy · 01/06/2024 08:12

whyhavetheygotsomany · 31/05/2024 11:13

So they are having a scam wedding to get a holiday basically

Yes, they are. I don't understand why the OP has already sent them the money. I would wait until the wedding itself to donate. Weddings get cancelled.

BillyWhitney · 31/05/2024 22:18

TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled · 31/05/2024 21:19

If you are having a ceremony that isnt a legal ceremony then it isnt a marriage ceremony.

marriage comes with legal protections and legal rights.

that is the truth if it.

have any kind of event you like, but it isnt a legal marriage without the legal bit.

dont be conned into thinking it is.

absolutely appalling @mnhq deleted that. It is crucial women stop working and having babies with men they are not married to while thinking living together means anything in a legal sense.

Show quote history

Saying gay relationships are lesser (the word used was ‘pretend’) because they were denied the same legal rights as heterosexual couples is not ok.

That is not remotely the same as saying women should know that legal marriage gives them legal protections that they otherwise have.

One is common sense, the other is homophobia.

TheBottomsOfMyTrousersAreRolled · 31/05/2024 21:19

BillyWhitney · 31/05/2024 10:15

“Pretend marriage”?! Wow.

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If you are having a ceremony that isnt a legal ceremony then it isnt a marriage ceremony.

marriage comes with legal protections and legal rights.

that is the truth if it.

have any kind of event you like, but it isnt a legal marriage without the legal bit.

dont be conned into thinking it is.

absolutely appalling @mnhq deleted that. It is crucial women stop working and having babies with men they are not married to while thinking living together means anything in a legal sense.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 31/05/2024 21:10

whyhavetheygotsomany · 31/05/2024 11:13

So they are having a scam wedding to get a holiday basically

So it seems

The "tell" is not having informed people until they'd accepted the invitation/sent the gifts, but then if they'd been clear before they may not have got as much (which could explain a lot)

crenellations · 31/05/2024 19:14

BillyWhitney · 31/05/2024 15:14

I wasn’t responding to the op, I was responding directly to another poster who said that ceremonies and what they represent is meaningless without the legal section.

The op’s situation is different, and is odd (although personally I wouldn’t get upset about it - but I love weddings/parties and am happy for any excuse!).

Maybe it's the company you keep.

??? People? Lots of different ones, like most people.

The part of my post you said you didn't understand.... you said the event without the legal part was so your friends etc treated you with the same civil rights. I literally have never heard of something like this.

No I didn’t. That would be silly.

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The wording was "it was about other people recognising that and affording us the same civil rights as everyone else."

"It" being the fight for equal marriage, not the ceremonies.

A mis-reading, surely. (Sorry, I'm not replying directly to the quoted post, just trying to point out where the misunderstanding arose)

BillyWhitney · 31/05/2024 16:26

innerdesign · 31/05/2024 11:11

@BoudiccaOfSuburbia They had no chance of the legal protections or liabilities , and no one dissed their ceremony as meaningless - even though it had no legal basis.

Yes, because they had no chance of the legal protections or liabilities, as you said. Therefore it would have been awful to dismiss their ceremony as meaningless (although I suspect you're not correct when you say no one did, I'm sure some people did, incorrectly). That's the difference. People seem to be trying to paint OP as a homophobe, when the situation she refers to is completely different as the couple have freedom to legally marry, and indeed told their guests that was what they were doing.

No one has referred to the OP as a homophobe- her situation is unusual to say the least (and doesn’t seem to involve a gay couple anyway)…

the only homophobia has been from a different poster who was generalising about all non legal ceremonies and relationships being pretend- so all the humanist ceremonies as well as all faith ceremonies etc.

That is no more acceptable than a religious person coming along to say all hotel/registry/different faith marriages are pretend because they aren’t sanctified by the posters particular God.

Obviously some have legal standing and some don’t- everyone is aware of that- but that isn’t the whole of what a marriage is.