To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

I wonder what response I'd get if I started a thread on how I wanted to go on a mountain climbing holiday as a wheelchair user, and what should the holiday company/mountain be doing to make it accessible for me...?

I booked a potholing weekend, but was dismayed that my kids would be in confined spaces because, you see, they're claustrophobic so I think they should cater for them exclusively. Sounds ludicrous, doesn't it?

My autistic son loves Butlins we’ve been going most years since he was about 2 and he’s now a teen. We do have to think about what we are doing though to make it successful. he can’t cope with the busy dining hall so we tend to have our main meal in one of the restaurants mid afternoon when it’s quieter, we book a nice apartment as it’s not just a base for us we do spend quite alot of time relaxing in there, we buy the vip wristbands so we can get into a venue early with minimum of queueing and before it’s busy. Out of everything what we struggled most with last year was the queue for the swimming pool and queue for flumes in pool.

It's worse that you are autistic. It's hard enough trying to be heard.

What's the reason you are looking forward to showing colleagues?
Should be obvious, but because the display of ignorance on here is fascinating... and very much validates the importance of out work.

you have dismissed the voices of actual autistic people because you think you know/are better
Spolier alert... I'm autistic 🙄 yes, an 'actual' autistic person.

so you supposedly work in the area but are happy to discount the lived experiences of many?

this thread has shown (as anyone working in the area should know) that autism is such a wide spectrum that what one person needs can be the polar opposite of what another needs. Many people have said Butlins is great for them/their young person with Autism, many others have said it isn’t for them.

What a weird question. I'm currently researching accessibility for ND children (among other things) and will be meeting/observing/interviewing ND children in London tomorrow. There are many many projects like this going on all the time - but of course, people on MN know best 🤪

Is your research project “what people with autism expect from Butlins”?

We chose a Haven site specifically because they offered autism friendly kids activities at specified times- fabulous!
Turns out you have to walk through the loud, bright and overwhelming arcade to get there though. We called Haven after the holiday, not to 'complain' but to let them know that this isn't autism friendly and they need to be aware of that. They honestly couldn't have given less of a shit.

Yep, because the handful of people on this thread on mumsnet are equivalent to the 1000s involved in research projects. I'll just delete all that work and hand in my PhD shall I? Looking forward to showing my colleagues this thread tomorrow!

Looks like I've definitely touched a nerve... 🙈

What is disappointing is that you seem to be ignoring all the autistic people here who are actually TELLING you that Butlins would always be their idea of hell and no amount of adjustments would make it a place they would like to visit.

You can’t twist a research project to fit your own hypothesis.

What is disappointing is that you seem to be ignoring all the autistic people here who are actually TELLING you that Butlins would always be their idea of hell and no amount of adjustments would make it a place they would like to visit.

You can’t twist a research project to fit your own hypothesis.

We chose a Haven site specifically because they offered autism friendly kids activities at specified times- fabulous!
Turns out you have to walk through the loud, bright and overwhelming arcade to get there though. We called Haven after the holiday, not to 'complain' but to let them know that this isn't autism friendly and they need to be aware of that. They honestly couldn't have given less of a shit.

I’ve said earlier that we have autistic family members so I really DO get it thank you very much

Then your views are especially disappointing.

It was just another view point that hadn’t been considered yet Thst maybe if we ASKED the autistic community instead of assuming that they want what a NT Community consider to be fun then The answers might be different. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, just that it’s the NT community calling for the adjustments here.

It's also worth being aware that you are making a big assumption that everyone on this thread 'calling for adjustments' is NT. What in the world makes you assume that?

I presume you also missed the part when I said I was an educational researcher... so yeh, I HAVE asked many autistic people what they want 🤦🏻‍♀️In fact, I'm doing a research project involving ND children tomorrow in London. But thanks for the suggestion...! 🙄

If you read my post properly, you will see that I referred to 'one poster' - not specifically you - so no need to take the defense! Was actually in reference to @penjil who stated:
"Dance halls and swimming pools are boisterous and noisy by nature, and for that reason alone should be avoided, I think"

I’ve said earlier that we have autistic family members so I really DO get it thank you very much. As I said, my nephews tastes are very different to mine - a fun day out us riding the buses or trains to terminus and back. We adjust our lives to his likes but never in a million years would choose it for ourselves as something we want to spend our days doing.

Surely this is a switch of that? He would be adjusting his preferences to live in a NT world but it isn’t something he would choose, even with adjustments. It’s not his “thing” to go to a noisy chaotic place. There’s nothing wrong in that. I wouldnt want to go to an all night rave - it’s not my thing. I would choose something else to do instead rather than find a way to get through.

I haven’t said there should be no adjustments and as some posters have said, their ND children DO like these kind of places. It was just another view point that hadn’t been considered yet Thst maybe if we ASKED the autistic community instead of assuming that they want what a NT Community consider to be fun then The answers might be different. I’m not saying I’m right or wrong, just that it’s the NT community calling for the adjustments here. Maybe instead we should be looking at developing an entirely different model of holiday camp which is predominantly geared towards broad autistic preferences (and yes I know that’s a broad brush approach but you have to start somewhere) with adjustments for the NT community within it rather than the other way around. Or maybe Butlins offers a quiet week each year where they switch their model the other way around?

Also, there is nothing in my post to say autistic kids don’t need to learn to swim for example. Of course they should. And there are great wquiet slots available at pools across the club try which work so much better. But peak holiday season in a resort like butlins will find it really hard to make those kind of adjustments for the few in their business model. There are too many people on site lining up for their turn to limit the pool for an hour a day to a handful of people (unless they wanted to charge for the privilege which would seem even more ablist to me…)

Google number one cause of death in autistic children and you come up with “drowning” - we absolutely must be teaching our autistic kids to swim and therefore need to take them to swimming pools. @surreygirl1987 is spot on. I too have an ND child and also NT children and have taken them all swimming together - it can happen and it should happen. Accommodating ND children/adults doesn’t necessarily require massive adjustments, just a bit of consideration from others which surely is not difficult.