To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

"Autism Friendly" is ableist shite to stop people with asd ruining the experience for NT people

I think an honest review saying "not suitable for those who don't enjoy crowds / noise" is fair. That's the point of a review, surely.

@norfolkbroadd

Name for me some of the entitled disabled stuff you see please. If you see it a lot you should have no problem listing it.

I took part in a discussion here, not a challenge.

I know people who take their neurodiverse kids with send to Butlins because they love the busyness and nosiness of the shows.

And how many people do you think with autism are at Butlins at anyone time? You will get a "quiet" show and less lights but many people will still turn up.

Like everything in life somethings will suit some people and not others. It's not solely based on being NT or ND.

You have to choose activities that suit what you can manage.

And I say that as a parent of an autistic teen who also has a physical disability.

Agree.

What about wheelchair friendly? Or a show suitable for hearing impaired children? Or sight impaired?

Some things are just not going to be suitable for some people with specific disabilities. If you don't have great mobility, for example, you can't go to the top of the Eiffel tower. As others have said, provisions for disabilities, and especially ones like autism and ADHD, are fairly new, and the spectrum is so varied - there will be some ND children that enjoy it, but also some that wouldn't cope with it at all. Hopefully better provision is something that they are looking at.

Have you considered getting in touch with Butlins about it? I would suggest, rather than complaining, be inquisitive and ask about if they are looking into creating a more ND-friendly environment. Tell them how you feel your experience could be improved, rather than on what was wrong in the first place - it's more likely to be well received, rven if they don't act on it.

It’s butlins in half term - of course it’s going to be chaos!

Also can I point out that there's no such thing as autism friendly suitable for all autistic people! Your dgd sounds fairly like my dd but we had to pull her from an autism specialist provider because she couldn't cope with the boisterous loud and frankly violent boys. She was mainstream educated with support from then on, with being educated separately (at school , private room) from 13 as noise was such an issue. I tried an autism friendly show once, disaster as the kids weren't sitting still and being quiet that stressed her out - adult shows with ear defenders worked for us, yes you'll see her performing in them too, adult now, professionally

I mean I get it. My DD is ND and it's horrible when they're on edge or melting down but rethink 'fun'. Mine are far happier on a quiet cottage holiday in the countryside with places to climb a few rocks or trees and streams to splash in.

Neurodiverse isn't just autism though, so should they have advertised "ADHD friendly shows and "Dyslexia friendly shows" and "Bipolar friendly shows" and whatever else is covered by the term? Why should they pick out autism?

I'm autistic and it's pretty clear that "neurodiverse" is just a vague, meaningless term people use to virtue signal or feel special. Most people and places are still very autism-unfriendly and they don't care!

As an adult it is hard to adjust your expectations to reality. It takes time, ds is 14 and I still have moments of it now!

the important thing is she enjoyed it, and it showed you a bit more about what she enjoys on holiday so that can be the focus more next time.

if you have enough adults do try to include some time for you all to do something you enjoy too!

They're a business. And a business that never sells itself on being progressive or inclusive. The business model of sell it cheap, fill it up, like it or lump it is fairly transparent and they obviously feel they can make sufficient profit from a customer base that doesn't require adjustments to bother introducing them.

Sorry to pile on but I really can’t see why buttons was your first choice. I’ve never been but I’ve seen the adverts and I couldn’t think of a place less set up for an autistic child!
If you needed them to have all these things that were suitable for neurodiverse kids then why didn’t you call and check before you booked? I’m afraid this one is on you?

Name for me some of the entitled disabled stuff you see please. If you see it a lot you should have no problem listing it.

OP I think the biggest adjustment here needs to come from within you. All those things you think kids will love, and that you possibly loved as a child - not gonna happen for your granddaughter. You need to imagine yourself as her eyes and ears and try to see things through them instead of a tint of nostalgia. My DF has no idea how to relate to my autistic child because he has never bothered doing this. He just asks me over and over again why my DS can't cope with fairgrounds/busy piers/pantomimes/circuses/all the other stuff adults think kids love.

They are a loud brash set up! They can't make exceptions at soft play because not all autistic kids are alike, some (mostly boys) are the complete opposite and would not be good in the toddler area as too rough. I've rarely seen quiet kids shows either, there's one sitting of the panto each year.

I have an autistic dd, we never went to places like butlins, we avoided soft play and indoor children's activities, even swimming indoors, too noisy! My recommendation is to go to places where there's not likely to be many other children eg non coastal hotels, eg we found a road trip of inland Spain great, often no other children staying there so the pool was really quiet. I was in Buxton recently and there was a young autistic girl with her family, again only child there.

It's a pity you didn't take him to one of the pre school Butlins breaks that are weekdays in term time. My daughter and family go. The shows are Peppa Pig and Justin Fletcher ones and everything is aimed at little ones. My little DGDs (one of whom may be ND) have a very happy time.

Typical entitled attitude here. I see it a lot when it comes to disability. If Butlins doesn't work for your family you don't go to butlins. We have been holidaying in places to suit our disabled family for over 20 years and I wouldn't dream of going somewhere that didn't fit our needs then leaving a bad review about it.

And before anyone comes at me about disabled people and the world needing to be accessible, it's a holiday, so you choose the one that meets your needs. If it were a workplace/school etc and they didn't cater for you needs that would be different but holidays are optional and there are literally unlimited options for people. Personal responsibility exists

Autistic children are children too and they deserve a holiday.

Not one person ahs said they don't deserve a holiday though? All were saying is that not all holidays are suitable for all people and therefore the onus should be on the person booking it to find a holiday that works for the people attending.

That’s like saying I don’t like clubbing and then coming back and saying I’ve just had an awful time in Ibiza.
We go to butlins but my kids are NT. Even they find it loud and too much at times.

for what it’s worth why don’t you try giving butlins some feedback? They can always create some ND shows if the uptake is there?

Im assuming you are talking about Butlins Minehead. I normally go into October half term when it is quieter. Butlins also do term time mid week breaks called just for tots. I didn’t have a older child I would have taken my autistic 3 year old to one of those as they are much quieter.

Half the swimming pools are broken at Minehead at the moment. Hence the queueing and booking a slot. On a midweek break I normally go on a Thursday as that is the quietist day. Afternoons are generally quieter than mornings.

Normally, when I go to Butlins there are lots of kids wearing ear defenders and in SN buggies.

Butlins is what you want it to be and you can organise you own schedule to suit you and your kids.

This is the general feeling of most people, but it wouldn't hurt to make one session of swimming a 'quiet session'. It wouldn't hurt to start things on time. It wouldn't hurt to have a sensory room for when kids get overwhelmed. None of the stuff above is expensive.

Some autistic kids actually love places like Butlins and go again and again every year because the sameness appeals to them and makes them feel safe.

Autistic children are children too and they deserve a holiday.

You sound like a lovely, thoughtful gm. It’s a steep learning curve figuring out what works, particularly when you’re looking at promotional pictures of pools with 5 people in them and you haven’t imagined what happens when you combine cramming in to max capacity with incompetent management and underpaid, inexperienced college kid staff.

It's odd that you expect it, rather than calling first to ask if they provide these performances before you book.

Companies are in the early stages of adapting to neorodiversity. You can't 'expect' anything, and as a parent of an autistic child, I'm afraid it's down to you to do your research before you book.

ETA sorry, just realised you're the grandparent. But still. Research is key.