To be suprised at Butlins and their lack of neurodiverse awareness?

I agree with you, and its not even just for neurodivergent people. My children find the shows far to loud and neither are diagnosed as neurodiverse, both have to wear ear defenders to enjoy them. They couod bring down the noise levels and reduce the bright lights for everyone's benefit

If you stay at Haven Kent Coast you don’t need to walk through the arcade to get to the kids play area.

Yep - at most Haven sites you have to walk through the noisy (and excruciating for DD) arcade area to get to the outdoor play area and the sand pit and all of the things we want to go to. I totally agree - no thought to ND people who get massive sensory overload in there (me included). There should be anpther way through 🤔

Well, maybe Butlins should market itself as "we're family-friendly, but if you have a disability, we don't want you." Of course, that wouldn't be acceptable, and it highlights the core issue here.

I understand your point about using mountain climbing as an example and the challenges many wheelchair users face. However, it's important to recognize that the accommodations we're discussing for places like Butlins are much more feasible and within reach.

When Butlins markets itself as family-friendly, it should genuinely strive to be inclusive of all families, including those with disabled members. This isn't about making every experience identical for everyone but about providing reasonable adjustments that allow everyone to participate.

For example, at least one sensory-friendly show per day, quieter spaces, and better crowd management are reasonable and practical adjustments that can significantly improve the experience for neurodiverse guests. These accommodations don't require a huge investment but can make a substantial difference in making a destination like Butlins truly inclusive.

Just as physical accommodations are essential for wheelchair users, sensory accommodations are crucial for those with sensory sensitivities. By implementing these adjustments, Butlins can ensure that all family members, whether neurodiverse or neurotypical, can enjoy their stay without significant compromises.

I understand your point about NT family members being more flexible and adapting their plans to accommodate an ND child's needs. However, in the case of GreenPhlem, the issue is broader and more complex.

GreenPhlem's experience at Butlins highlights the significant challenges faced by families with neurodiverse children in environments that are not accommodating. Despite Butlins marketing itself as a family-friendly destination, there were no autism-friendly shows or sensory accommodations, leading to repeated struggles for their granddaughter.

The idea isn't to "shoehorn" an ND child into an NT environment but to make these mainstream destinations more inclusive. A few reasonable adjustments, such as having at least one sensory-friendly show per day, offering quieter spaces, and better managing crowd control, can make a substantial difference. This doesn't require a complete overhaul but rather thoughtful integration of accommodations that can benefit all families.

Moreover, inclusivity at places like Butlins is essential because not every family can always tailor their holiday choices solely based on one member's needs. By making reasonable adjustments, Butlins can ensure that all family members, both ND and NT, can enjoy their stay without significant compromises.

Creating an inclusive environment where everyone feels welcome aligns with broader societal values and legal obligations under the Equality Act 2010. It's about recognizing diversity and ensuring that all guests, regardless of their needs, can have a pleasant and fulfilling experience.

No that is just if you are booking and need a wheelchair or downstairs apartment. They don't offer disabled facilities or meet specific requirements.

https://www.butlins.com/help-contact/disability-requirements

Out of curiosity, looked at the Butlins website ,,and found this link, so they do offer disabled facilities and invite holiday makers to contact them if they need specific requirements or for advice.

Yes but the original poster could have. And as I’ve said, all these posts are about shoehorning a ND child into a NT environment. How about the NT family members being the ones that change what they choose (as they’re the ones who are broadly more likely to be flexible) and spend a week doing what the ND child prefers?

It was an example. I'm perfectly aware that there are a miniscule number of wheelchair users who have accessed a mountain using very specialised and extremely expensive equipment.

As a normal wheelchair user, I don't have the hundreds of thousands of pounds it would take to get me up a mountain and even if I did, I wouldn't want to.

I accept I can't climb a mountain. Just like I accept I can't use stairs, abseil, ride horses or anything else that takes physical effort and strength. So I wouldn't book a physical activity holiday.

Everyone deserves the opportunity to enjoy a variety of experiences together, without being limited to certain types of holidays.

This is why it's so important for mainstream holiday destinations like Butlins to make reasonable adjustments and provide inclusive options. By doing so, they can accommodate a broader range of needs and preferences, ensuring that families with disabled members can enjoy the same opportunities as everyone else. It’s about creating a more inclusive and welcoming environment for all, allowing everyone to have a fulfilling and enjoyable holiday experience.

It’s also important to address a common concern that making things more accessible or implementing reasonable adjustments might negatively impact the experience of those without disabilities. In reality, many accessibility improvements benefit everyone in various ways. Here are some examples:

• Clear Communication: Enhanced signage, detailed schedules, and better information dissemination help all guests navigate the venue more easily, reducing confusion and enhancing the overall experience.

• Quiet Spaces: Designated quiet areas not only help those with sensory sensitivities but also provide a relaxing retreat for anyone needing a break from the hustle and bustle, including parents with young children or elderly guests.

• Improved Layouts: Wider paths and better-designed facilities improve accessibility for wheelchair users and also make it easier for families with strollers, elderly guests, and those carrying luggage or equipment.

• Sensory-Friendly Options: Offering sensory-friendly shows or activities can be a welcome change for young children, people with anxiety, or anyone who might prefer a less intense environment.

• Inclusive Play Areas: Play areas designed with accessibility in mind can be used by all children, promoting social interaction and inclusion among kids of different abilities.

• Training Staff in Disability Awareness: Training staff to be aware of and sensitive to various disabilities can lead to better customer service for all guests, fostering a more welcoming and supportive environment.

• Enhanced Safety Features: Features like improved lighting, clear floor markings, and slip-resistant surfaces can prevent accidents, benefiting everyone’s safety.

• Better Customer Experience: When venues cater to a wider range of needs, they often see an increase in positive reviews and customer satisfaction, benefiting their reputation and business success.

Schools used to be able to authorise holidays for children with disabilities who would massively benefit from holidaying during during term time when it was quieter. Now the government has put a stop to it.
And before I get five replies telling me that disabled children should only holiday in a cottage on a remote island miles from civilisation, this post relates specifically to Bulins.

The other issue is that siloing disabled people into specific holidays that are disabled friendly is restrictive not just for the disabled person, but the rest of the family as well.

thank you for sharing your experience with mobility equipment rentals on cruises. It’s great to hear that there are services like Mobility at Sea offering equipment hire at reasonable prices. 😃

I understand that maintaining a stock of specialized equipment, such as hoists, can be challenging for many venues due to the servicing and storage requirements. However, as you've pointed out, partnering with third-party companies to provide rental options could be a practical solution. This approach ensures that guests who need specific equipment can still access it without the venue having to manage the logistics themselves.

If venues like Butlins are unable to offer direct rentals, they could prominently feature information about local mobility shops that provide such services. I do know that the Butlins website mentions local mobility shops, although you really have to go looking for that information. Making this information more accessible and easier to find would also be a significant step toward improving their overall accessibility too.

Actually, it is possible for wheelchair users to go on mountain climbing holidays. There are specialized companies and adaptive equipment designed to make these adventures accessible. The key point is that accessibility isn't about making every experience identical for everyone but about providing reasonable adjustments to allow participation.

Here are some well known examples;
Aaron Phipps, a Paralympian and wheelchair user, who climbed Mount Kilimanjaro in 2016 using a specially adapted wheelchair

Karen Darke, a Paralympic cyclist and wheelchair user, who has scaled El Capitan, a vertical rock formation in Yosemite National Park, and also participated in expeditions across Greenland and the Himalayas.

Enock Glidden, an adventurer and wheelchair user, who climbed El Capitan in 2016, overcoming the 3,000-foot ascent using adaptive techniques and equipment.

Marc-André Masson, a Canadian wheelchair user, who summited Mount Kilimanjaro in 2012

John Davis, who, despite being paralyzed from the waist down, reached the summit of Mount Hood in Oregon using a specially designed handcycle.

and many more

These examples show that with the right equipment and support, activities like mountain climbing can be made accessible.

The key point is that accessibility is about making reasonable adjustments so everyone can participate. Just as mountain climbing has been adapted for wheelchair users, family-oriented venues like Butlins can implement sensory-friendly options to be more inclusive for neurodiverse guests.

It's about ensuring everyone has the opportunity to enjoy different experiences. By making these accommodations, we promote inclusivity and respect for the diverse needs of all individuals.

We do cruises and when you cruise from Southampton there is a company called mobility at sea who offer a wide range of equipment for hire at reasonable prices. We have only ever used them for a wheelchair but were impressed by the service.

for a lot of places having a store of equipment to hire isn’t practical, especially when it comes to things like hoists which require a lot of servicing, so having the option to hire things at a reasonable price is a great alternative.

thank you for your thoughtful response. You’ve articulated the issue perfectly. It’s not just about making adjustments for one child but about ensuring entire families can enjoy these experiences together. As you mentioned, simple, well-thought-out accommodations like sensory-friendly slots for activities can make a world of difference without overhauling the entire operation.

Your experience with your son highlights the spectrum of needs within the disability community. Some kids might thrive in a high-energy environment, while others need quieter settings. Providing a range of options can help cater to these diverse needs. It’s also about fostering understanding and acceptance, as you’ve done with your son, ensuring he can participate in activities in a way that’s safe and enjoyable for everyone involved.

In the end, inclusivity is not just morally right but also beneficial for businesses. More inclusive practices can attract a wider range of customers and build a reputation for being accommodating and family-friendly. Thanks again for your insights :)

I see where you're coming from, and it’s true that finding a holiday that aligns with a child’s preferences is essential. However, the broader point here is about ensuring that mainstream holiday destinations like Butlins make reasonable adjustments to accommodate a diverse range of needs. Not every family can limit their options strictly based on their child’s specific needs, especially when places like Butlins market themselves as family-friendly. By implementing even a few sensory-friendly options, they can become more inclusive, allowing more families to enjoy their services without having to compromise significantly. It’s about creating an environment where all families feel welcome and included.

you make a valid point. Accessibility issues are indeed widespread, and it's frustrating that many places fall short in providing adequate facilities. As both a wheelchair user and someone who is autistic, I understand these challenges first-hand.

It would be ideal for Butlins to offer hoist rentals as an option, I also think it's reasonable for some guests to bring their own hoist if they can, for personal comfort and familiarity. However, providing rentals could significantly improve accessibility for those who cannot bring their own equipment, enhancing the overall experience and inclusivity for all guests.

I understand some might argue why they should have to rent one, but offering a rental option would cater to those who are unable to transport their own hoist. This service could be seen as part of providing comprehensive accessibility, ensuring that all guests, regardless of their personal circumstances, can enjoy their stay comfortably. It’s about creating an inclusive environment that accommodates a variety of needs and preferences.

@95Bubbles thanks for including a mature response.

I think people are missing the point on here. If you don't make reasonable adjustments, you don't just exclude the child, but the entire family. Neurodiversity is increasing and not making reasonable adjustments is a shit business strategy really.

I think what most people expect is a few well thought out activities across the week. A couple of autism and disability friendly slots for the pool, entertainment etc. The holiday provider and customer both need to make an effort to be reasonable and meet in the middle. You can't expect them to totally change how they do things, but they should provide similar opportunities to join in in a way that meets their needs.

My son with complex needs is in a mainstream atm. Never been invited to a party, but wouldn't have taken him to one anyway as it is the child's special day and it wouldn't be appropriate for him to attend. He be grabbing fistfuls of birthday cake and throwing food around!

He is hyposensitive, so seeks sensory stimulation - not every child with ASD needs quiet and fewer people. My son loves a disco, but he might charge about a bit and shout, but I would be with him to keep him and others safe. Obviously we wouldn't do this in a restaurant though. I think we are quite reasonable in what we expect really. We expect people to accept our sons disabilities and not judge and bitch if he isn't really affecting anyone, but don't want the world to change around him either. We do have to do a lot as a family to make things work with activities normal families take for granted, and are always by his side, so I would hope we weren't excluded for any reason.

I don’t disagree with any of that. if you want to take a child that doesn’t like that kind of a holiday then these will all make things a better experience for them ,yes.

But if your child really doesn’t like that kind of a holiday then no amount of adjustment will make it their dream holiday, so I think what the other posters are saying is why go in the first place to try and make something “fit” the child rather than finding an experience that works for them with less requirement for compromise?

@95bubbles I just want to point out that lots of places that claim to be accessible for wheelchair users, are not. If you stay at Butlins for example, you need to bring your own hoist.

I understand that some of you believe the original poster should have anticipated the challenges at Butlins, but it's important to recognize a few key points:

1. Legal Obligations: Under the Equality Act 2010, service providers, including family resorts like Butlins, are legally required to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that disabled people, including those with autism, are not put at a substantial disadvantage. This means providing sensory-friendly options and clear communication about schedules.
2. Inclusion and Accessibility: Just as physical accessibility is essential for wheelchair users, sensory accommodations are crucial for neurodiverse individuals. This is about inclusivity and ensuring that everyone can enjoy their experience. Many venues, including cinemas, manage to provide sensory-friendly showings, demonstrating that it is both possible and beneficial.
3. Reasonable Adjustments: Expecting a place like Butlins to offer at least one sensory-friendly show or a quiet space isn't demanding too much. These adjustments don't require a complete overhaul but can significantly enhance the experience for neurodiverse children and their families.
4. Varied Needs in the Autism Spectrum: Autism is a wide spectrum, and while one child might cope well in certain environments, another might not. Offering even a few sensory-friendly options can make a significant difference for many families.
5. Positive Feedback and Improvement: Feedback from customers, especially those advocating for reasonable adjustments, is vital for venues to understand and improve their services. Instead of dismissing these concerns, recognizing their validity can lead to positive changes that benefit a broader range of visitors.

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience at Butlins with your granddaughter. It sounds incredibly frustrating and disappointing, especially when you were hoping for a fun and inclusive family outing.

Your concerns about the lack of neurodiverse awareness at Butlins are absolutely valid. It’s reasonable to expect that a family-oriented place like Butlins would provide autism-friendly shows and events, clear and timely communication about schedules, and appropriate accommodations in areas like the swimming pool and soft play.

You are definitely not being unreasonable to expect these adjustments. Many places are increasingly recognizing the importance of accommodating neurodiverse children and providing sensory-friendly options. It might be worth providing your feedback directly to Butlins. Customer feedback is vital for them to understand and improve their services.

Your expectations for reasonable accommodations for your autistic granddaughter are entirely valid, and here's why:

1. Inclusion and Accessibility: Just like how physical accessibility is crucial for wheelchair users, sensory accommodations are essential for neurodiverse individuals. It's about inclusivity and ensuring that everyone can enjoy the experience, which places like Butlins should strive for.
2. Precedent and Examples: Other family-oriented places, such as Hoburne, have already implemented neurodiverse-friendly activities, like quieter events or reduced music levels. This shows it's possible and beneficial to make these adjustments.
3. Varied Needs in the Autism Spectrum: As several people have pointed out, autism is a wide spectrum. What works for one child might not work for another. However, offering even a few sensory-friendly options can make a significant difference for many families.
4. Reasonable Adjustments: Expecting a place like Butlins to offer at least one sensory-friendly show or a quiet space isn't demanding too much. These adjustments don't require a complete overhaul but can significantly enhance the experience for neurodiverse children and their families.
5. Equality Act 2010: This act legally requires service providers, including entertainment venues and holiday parks like Butlins, to make reasonable adjustments to ensure that disabled people are not put at a substantial disadvantage compared to non-disabled people. Autism is considered a disability under this act. Reasonable adjustments might include providing quieter areas, offering sensory-friendly shows, and ensuring clear communication about schedules.
6. Inclusive Practice: Under the Equality Act, inclusivity isn't just about physical adjustments but also about sensory and cognitive accessibility. This aligns with your expectations that places like Butlins should cater to a diverse range of needs, ensuring an inclusive experience for all families.

700k people in the uk are autistic and no its not unreasonable to expect reasonable adjustments to be made especially with the disability act 2010

I think people are taking it to extremes. Granted you can’t expect a holiday like butlins to be a quiet soothing holiday destination, but there could be a middle ground. Some activities could be offered for neurodiverse children, like they did at Hoburne such as the wet and wild with reduced music. This means children can join in some activities and not others which they may find overstimulating.