I’m a middle-aged widow. I don’t want your husband

But where's this assumption coming from that that is the issue here?

I certainly never felt that was the case when I was single.

And I don't care if my husband is around my single friends but equally he's not fussed about going out to see them , he'd prefer to stay home

Yeah exactly, I wouldn't be with someone who wouldn't be able to resist temptation if an opportunity arose.
I can't imagine only trusting someone on the basis that they are never around other women.
Trust is about them being able to be in any situation and trusting that they wouldn't even be close to doing anything.

I think there is a mindset of not allowing the opportunity and hoping it won't happen if there isn't "temptation". The alternative is accepting a) your marriage isn't very good and b) your husband can't be trusted. Far easier to blame someone else than face up to all that

I think that’s the crux of the issue, tbh. It’s an extension of the “terrible other woman stole my husband” trope, blaming the woman instead of the man for the man’s actions and lack of loyalty.

@BionicBadger I'm sorry for your loss too

I believe it does happen for sure. But what's the answer? if someone wants to cheat they'll cheat. I dont think not having a dinner party is going to solve that issue. I mean, by that rationale, you could say banning your husband from ever leaving the house is the only answer because he'll meet single attractive women literally everywhere- at work, on his commute, in the supermarket, through his friends, his own friends wives, at hobbies/clubs etc etc

I think there is a mindset of not allowing the opportunity and hoping it won't happen if there isn't "temptation". The alternative is accepting a) your marriage isn't very good and b) your husband can't be trusted. Far easier to blame someone else than face up to all that.

For those saying "Ah, but it's not automatically the case that the husband is going to try it on that's the reason for you not being invited any more, it's just awkwardness/people not knowing how to act", there's a hell of a lot of posters on this thread saying that they were hit on by their friends' husbands as soon as they were single again. Not automatic perhaps, but certainly not unheard of either.

Put insecure marriages and untrustworthy husbands together and you can see why the single woman gets ousted, in case she's the unwitting catalyst.

I'm responding to the previous poster whose rather unpleasant mean-girls-in-the-playground-style response was "Even if you think they're your friends they aren't and aren't you stupid to think they'd like you", and posters being told to get their male friends elsewhere than becoming friends - permanently or otherwise - via their partner.

To get back to the subject in hand, if they stop meeting me then you're quite right, they weren't my true friends. But as this entire thread has shown, it's staggering how many people stop being your friend solely because of your single status, because you "change the dynamic" or "make things awkward" or they think you're after their partner, regardless of whether they enjoyed your company when you were part of a couple.

And I still don't see why someone wouldn't want to go out with a couple sometimes if they liked both of them, even if at other times they preferred to see them individually (one or both).

@BionicBadger

I'm so sorry lovely.

The being left out I am sure is real. People are afraid of grief. My friend lost her baby and experienced so many friends vanishing . I experienced all kinds of different reactions when I was grieving my long term boyfriend in my twenties.

But I really am unconvinced by the sex explanation. I think that there are much more plausible ones. People just don't know how to be around grieving people and to some extent can never get it right as different people will want different things from friends anyway.

But I have never worried my husband will want to have sex with my single friends, he'd just rather stay home when I meet up with them (plus otherwise we need to pay a babysitter!). And when I was single and grieving in my twenties it never occurred to me to think women would see me as a threat.

I thought it was a leap at first but this thread has shown me otherwise. I assume there are all kinds of reasons.

But lots of other explanations have been given. I imagine it is more akin to the same reason some people don't invite bereaved parents out etc. They don't realise they still want those invitations.

Having suffered the devastating loss of my first love in my early twenties (a time when everyone is partying and having fun) believe me I have been there. Seen people not know how to handle it my grief. But never once did it cross my mind that if my friends were seeing me on their own or not inviting me it was because they were worried about me being so alluring their husbands/boyfriends wouldn't be able to resist. If I wasn't invited I assumed it was part of the general awkwardness around grief. And if they invited me for a drink just with them I assumed that was because they were keen to spend time with me.

But yes, if it helps to assume that women are keeping you away from their husband then by all means assume that, but i really think there are more plausible explanations

Maybe it is "an astonishing leap". But recounted experience here suggests not.

Even if it is, do you not think it's a slightly preferable scenario to realising that you're not actually wanted at all? Call it misogynistic, egotistical, delusional if you must. But the sudden gift of invisibility and irrelevance bestowed by widowhood is a bitter pill to swallow. None of it is desired or wanted - everything feels ugly and mean and bitter for a long time.

And it's desperately sad that that is happening. I don't think anyone is disputing that might happen.

What is reasonable to question though is the insinuation by the op (and others) that this is because women at worried their husbands will want to have sex with single women/widows. I think this is an astonishing leap.

Fantastic post, @MistressoftheDarkSide . Every single word of that sums up widowhood for almost everyone who loses a partner.

It's about seeing Facebook posts where your "group" have gone out and had a whale of a time - something you may have wanted to join in with but no-one mentioned it because they thought you'd feel awkward, which you might well have done and declined if asked - it's the asking that's important.

This was a killer for me in the first couple of years, when friends' annual birthday/NY parties went ahead as usual without even a mention to me, never mind an invitation.

I would add that in no way would I have been a downer in any situation. My husband had been ill for a long time, and a lot of the grieving had already happened along the way. I was pretty much my normal self in any social situation and kept residual grief to myself.

It's not about male friends distancing themselves though, it's about couples distancing themselves. It may or may not be a conscious decision by one or both parties.

It's about finding yourself no longer part of a couple and discovering that you no longer belong.

It's about seeing Facebook posts where your "group" have gone out and had a whale of a time - something you may have wanted to join in with but no-one mentioned it because they thought you'd feel awkward, which you might well have done and declined if asked - it's the asking that's important.

It's about suddenly feeling relegated into an unfamiliar box where you can be safely kept to minimise any unpleasant fallout.

It's about feeling like an object of pity, rather than a person.

It's about feeling as though your loss makes you of less value by 50%.

Again, whether this is rational or not, it's what can happen, and is being reported here.

It's a messy, hideous place to be, and it takes time to level out. The modern world doesn't allow for that time unfortunately.

@MistressoftheDarkSide

so sorry for your loss and everyone who has lost a spouse.

But I am not comfortable with the subtle misogyny in many of these posts. Yet again as PP have said it’s turning into women being always at fault.

We are all responsible for our own actions and if male friends are distancing themselves that’s entirely on them. If someone avoids you afterwards then they were never really your friend. It’s a harsh truth that many don’t want to hear because it’s painful but sadly, actions really do speak louder than words. Unless those men are in abusive relationships (in which case I’d be trying to help them) then there is no excuse. It’s a complete cop out to blame their wives.

If I may, I'll place blame where it lies - with Death.

The main point of this thread is people trying to make sense of something that is intrinsically unfair to a bereaved person who has to deal with what one hopes are unintended consequences. One of those consequences is changes in the dynamics of relationships at a time when a need for consistency and security is paramount. You need to feel as if you're not being swallowed by quicksand.

I don't think it's a blame game as such to be honest, it's processing, it's constant adjustment and fear is the driver. Fear brings irrationality to the party. The sudden loss of previously supportive people of either sex is another little bereavement, and while in rational terms it may be "wrong", "unhelpful", "unjust" to point fingers or attribute those fears to "imagined" motivations you have to remember that Anger is another guest at this shitty party.

Of course there is no excuse for lashing out or bad behaviour, of which I have been guilty myself, to my cost. However there are multiple, complicated reasons.

For those boiling it down to the battle of the sexes and sexual politics these things aren't a conscious consideration for the most part, they evolve into solid thoughts based on experience.

I'm probably rambling here now but I know what I'm getting at.

And it sounds as though someone's raiding my skip so I'm just going to go and check nothing obstructive is happening on the pavement.

A widow's work is never done.....

I think everyone's way to hung up in the whole "why would you want to hang out with your friends' husbands?"

It's not that. It's that once you no longer fit with the couple dynamic you no longer hear from any of the group, men or women, which may well mean they were never very good friends, but the effect is that you lose your entire support network, just at the time you need it most.

Personally, I don't think it's fear that their husbands will chase you or vice versa, just that the whole thing isn't comfortable anymore. Which may be true, but what a shame that human being can't overcome that to be there for a friend at the very worst time of her life.

Another thread when men’s behaviour and lack of giving a shit makes it women v women

Exactly. If your male friends dont care enough about you to include you then they arent your "friends" in the first place.

Bloody hell, reading this thread makes you assume men are all infant little boys being told by mummy that they cant go out to play. These are grown adult men here- grown men who you claim are your very close friends. But God forbid it ever be a man's fault, no, it must be all those nasty jealous women preventing them from leaving the house.

Have a look at how many threads here are along the lines of ‘dp’s work colleague texted him’/ ‘dp’s uni friend texted him’/ ‘dp’s ndn asked him to help her’/‘dp is going to a conference with female colleague’ etc etc etc and all of them display a woman who doesn’t trust her partner, and is afraid he’s going to be tempted by the colleague/friend/neighbour. If he was a decent trustworthy sort, it wouldn’t matter if he was away on a conference with Julia Roberts, or getting texts from Heidi Klum, but he’s not, the wife knows it, and so she makes the woman the problem or threat, rather than addressing her shitty partner and substandard relationship.

Another thread when men’s behaviour and lack of giving a shit makes it women v women.

Rather than pointing the finger where it belongs, the person dropping you like a steaming poop the guy…

Yes some men are controlled and abused. But what you saying is that every husband of your actual friends are being abused by controlling wives who won’t let them out…

or maybe just maybe a couple might be being told oh no don’t go out her and be happily obliges, the rest just never actually cared enough.

But let’s not stop shitty men causing arguments between women over their behaviour.

Equally, you can see people denigrating all other women and blaming women as a monolith for the fact that their male friends simply dont care about them. All in a desperate attempt to justify their male friends lack of care for them.

Agreed. You can see the women who don’t trust their husbands flock to denigrate the op on this thread, calling her needy, egotistical, exaggerating her words etc etc. All in a desperate attempt to convince themselves that their marriages are secure.

@BionicBadger

Sending you all the love in the world, a huge virtual hug and a handhold. I'm so sorry.

And yet many women here have female friends but complain that their partners are not friends with her.
And they jump on blaming the woman for somehow stopping husband to socialize with her.

Be happy you have female friends.
And ask yourself why you think you were ever friends with someone who dropped you now?
It is more likely that bloke was never your friend to start with.

But no, kva kva why am I sexual threat? Kvaaaa

I’m sorry op this must be very hurtful

I’ve always been a single mum and have always been left out of the couples dinners etc apart from with one friend

sadly independent single women are a concern for many married women when really their concern should be their husbands

of course shall be denied by many