I’m a middle-aged widow. I don’t want your husband

Yeah, this ... I know three women who live not too far from me, 2 widows and a divorced woman (all in their 50s and 60s.) They've had several married men in the street offering to mow their lawn, put up shelves for them, do the decorating for them, trim their hedges etc etc. All middle aged married men with grown up children who want to be the 'knight in shining armour.' (Why do some some married men do this?)

All three of these women have turned every offer down because of this reason. They didn't want the wives to feel uncomfortable or unhappy. They were all married themselves once, and they know how they would feel if their husband had been tootling around over to single women and widows being their 'knight in shining armour.'

They know how much it jars, and how insulting and disrespectful it is to the wife when a man is desperate to be be seen as a 'knight and shining armour,' helping other women - so he can puff out his big manly chest and feel like a big man helping the poor, fragile, lonely, iccle woman.

Also, although I've not been single since my mid 20s I do remember on some occasions, if ever any man ever came to talk to me (when his wife was not far away,) I would get absolute daggers from her, and evil looks, and even got called a fucking slag behind my back for talking to her husband when HE spoke to me first. I was a 'slag' just for talking to him.

So yes, some married women are massively threatened by single women/ widows. Of course, not all married women are, but yeah, certainly some are sometimes ... Sometimes they have a good reason to be threatened by them/worried about them, but IMO, it's unhappily married women that are more of a threat to your marriage than single women, or widows.

@Lastarse

I know, and we have done, and she is always invited to everything.

It’s been 3 years now so we are hoping things settle down but it is hard. Her behaviour is very irresponsible and not at all child focused. That’s where the exasperation comes in.

Yes, this is definitely thing. I was told by a friend of mine that “she would consult the other couples” because single me would spoil the dynamic. I told her not to bother.

There are a lot of us single women who are quite happy being single. I’ve now got loads of single women friends who don’t have to check with their husbands before committing to a night out. I’m absolutely not looking for a man.

my DM was widowed quite young, and a few single/widowed/divorced men were sniffing around. You could almost hear them thinking 'cook, housekeeper, nursemaid ...'.

That happened to my grandmother, so it has ever been thus. She had no intention of being someone else’s wife but the man pursuing her seemed to think she was a ready-made product. She stayed single for the rest of her life, sensible woman.

And the “product/service provider” thing rumbles on. I had a comment made about my cooking a while back: “She’s a good cook, I don’t know why she hasn’t been snapped up!”

Snapped up. Like I’m just a fucking asset to someone else rather than a person in my own right. I’m still salty about this!

HRTFT but are you measuring others by your own actions? My three closest friends have been through it all during the time I've been married (30 years). Two, who happen to be single, are coming for lunch today. DH will be here most of the time. I can't say I've consciously altered the way I treat them, no matter what their status is. Did you treat your single friend differently when married?

Given women usually outlive men most married women are more likely to be widowed than not. Don't want to think about it. So, will avoid 'the messanger'.

Plus, the old 'will she steal my husband / will my husband make a beeline for her even though she's making it plain she is not interested & is perfectly nice' trope.

I've been both divorced & widowed & people avoid these issues as they make them think. That makes many people 'uncomfortable'. Sad as both are common.

I don't really want to hang out with my friends ' husbands anyway as I'm mates with their wives, not them! They're usually annoying and just hang around in the background. I have my own male friends. Just because you're mates with the wife doesn't mean you automatically have to befriend the husband.

Sadly, yes I think this might be what's going on. I can understand why people would think of such women are petty and insecure, but if there's children involved, many women will not take such risks.

Actually no @saraclara I’ve lost a parent and supported the other through the transition from married to widowed and have other friends and family who’ve been widowed.

When I said it might be tough I’m speaking from the experience of having had people widowed express this to me regarding being in a big group of couples - for instance my parent being chronically depressed and not eating or sleeping for a week prior to going to a wedding where all friends were couples previously socialised with prior to death of spouse. And this was 7 years after bereavement!!

Regards a widow joining a couple for activities previously enjoyed as two couples, it’s incredibly naive to think that can carry on when there has been such a change in dynamics.

And regards a few couples being fine or not what I mean is - if there’s a group of say 4 couples who’ve been friends forever and very embroiled in each other’s lives and one is widowed it would be natural for the association to carry on. If a group of couples who were associated through the husband’s work and he died then it wouldn’t really make sense.

It can be a cultural thing too - in some cultures/religions it’s very normal for sexes to mix and have close social relationships, in others it tends to be everyone meets up and the men chat together and the women chat together.

Inevitably lead to conversations around the bereavement? How?

Because if you meet up with a couple you formerly socialised with with your spouse and the other person same sex as your spouse is sitting about like a spare part it inevitably turns to - wasn’t it great when they were here, we miss them and so on… again, as my widowed friends and family have recounted. My parent purposefully avoids many friends from before as finds it too upsetting they are all still in couples and constantly want to talk about dead spouse.

Then there’s the fact that the couple may have been keener on your spouse than you too so that can lead to relationships being less close.

You’re being very judgemental. I’ve supported a lot of widows and what I’m stating comes directly from the experiences they’ve related to me when I’ve been giving support.

I agree. I have friends - male and female - who don’t treat me in the way that the experiences on this thread set out. It’s not everyone that behaves like this.

But it DOES happen. It has happened over and over again to me, and over and over again to many posters here. Saying it doesn’t happen just excuses the shitty behaviour of those who perpetuate this crappy attitude to single/widowed women, and belittles our actual fucking experiences.

I think there are men who find happily single women unsettling and worry that socialising with them might encourage their own wives to reassess their relationship, leaving them to fend for themselves.

I wouldn’t say I’m jealous, but myself and other friends do find it difficult to not feel exasperated because we have to parent every day no matter what.

So, you ARE jealous. Because you’re “exasperated” at her for daring to have a set up you wish you had. Jesus, with “friends” like you the poor woman doesn’t need enemies.

Or maybe the takeaway from this thread could be for married women to look outside their bubbles and include single friends, so the onus of raising difficult conversations is not placed on women that are recently bereaved or divorced.

Sadly, as a single person, this is so relatable. I don't want your husbands either. Not even a little bit. YANBU.

Most relationships, even with 'good men', the bulk of housework and parenting falls to women so I am aware it feels relentless, I have been there.

What I would say if you are genuinely jealous of your separated and divorced friends, look inward. There are probably changes you could make in your relationship to allow time to take up landscape photography if that's what you wish to do.

If your partner won't accommodate or be open to change, is it really a partnership? My marriage was not a partnership and leaving was the best decision for me, I am so much happier.

"Till death do us part" was invented to trap women into providing free labour for men till they die.

You could say I am 'lucky' because my ex is competent enough to have 50/50 care, but I do know single mums with 100% care who are still happier because it is one less person in the house to please and tidy up after.

But yeah, you will likely stop receiving invites to couples events and need to find new friends 😅

Yes, it's not just widowed women, its any un partnered woman.

The women know that their husbands may come sniffing around as they think a single woman is desperate for sex. We're not. 😆

The social invitations dry up and women scurry to their husband's side if you happen to chat to them.

Funny how single men aren't treated this way.

Introducing those concepts into this conversation is just ridiculous.

I agree. That was my point.

It's never going to be a healthy world view (regardless of your circumstances).

I think the OP would be better advised to have a frank conversation with her friends, instead of being encouraged to keep assuming all of her female friends are simply insecure and jealous (fortunately there's been the odd sensible reply suggesting same).

Oh good god, yes to all of the above regarding the treatment of single women. And I can only imagine widowhood is even worse because you’ve got the “I didn’t know what to say so I didn’t bother saying anything” crap in the mix. Plus your single status was foisted on you, so presumably you’re seen as wanting to “rectify” that forthwith.

I remember being in my 20s and falling in with a group of women through a hobby. Got invited to a BBQ and ended up chatting to the men about a sport I happened to know a fair bit about. Dear god, the women looked at me like I was about to eat their firstborns. I wasn’t remotely interested in any of their tedious husbands.

And yes, the post-separation fall off in invitations (albeit a different friend group). Not only might you relieve them of their husbands or their husbands will have the opportunity to make a pass at you, but a single person is awkward on numbers, apparently. God forbid you’re also childfree. It never seems to occur to them that I want to be single and I’m still not remotely interested in any of their tedious husbands.

The thing that really boils my piss is that it’s the single woman who is punished socially, not the men who can’t keep their wandering eyes and hands to themselves.

As Jilly Cooper once said, the wages of single life are social death.

This is what I was going to say.

I didn’t realize that widows were also left out.

So many people are very strange about women who aren’t ’taken’ by a man.

@Unjustifiable ultimately being a single parent can be lonely at times. You don’t have the support of an OH, be part of a team, or the security of a partner quite simply. I can’t speak for your friend, she seems to be proactive but bear in mind post divorce people tend to go a bit mad at trying to create a new life. So cut her some slack.

Speak for yourself. I'm rubbish at DIY and I'd very much appreciate renting a husband just for that. Mostly because even the simplest of DIY jobs usually need two people. I mean, even I'm capable of knocking picture hooks into a wall. But there's no-one to tell me if I'm hanging the pictures straight, or in a way that looks right.

@Cherryicepop , my DM was widowed quite young, and a few single/widowed/divorced men were sniffing around. You could almost hear them thinking 'cook, housekeeper, nursemaid ...'. Yuk.

Cousin and uncle were young widowers, and had a bit of interest. Uncle remained single. Cousin has now got a lovely partner who doesn't seem to be after his money etc.

@namechangealerttt

In my social group there is a friend who is in the process of getting divorced, separated for a while.

She goes to countless activities, hobbies and courses, works part time and has a mountain of UC etc due to being a single mother, she can spend an entire weekend shagging random men, drinking and getting high if she chooses. And her parents mind her DC most weeks for a night to ‘give her a break’ (from what?!)

I wouldn’t say I’m jealous, but myself and other friends do find it difficult to not feel exasperated because we have to parent every day no matter what. Fair enough our DH’s may take the kids out for the day or give us a lie in and this is reciprocal…. But we are never going to get the chance of having 3-5 entire days a week off from parenting every single week of the year to learn how to do landscape photography or whatever else.

Your lucky you still have any friendship circle most widows end up completely alone no friends and relations with family very different.

I think sometimes it’s putting the fear into them about what they could lose and they can’t bear it. I noticed when my mum died that the only ones who got it fully were those who had already been through the loss….others were scared of me.