Is this normal behaviour from PIL

What absolute shite! All my DC were breastfed for extended periods of time. None of them have a single filling and their teeth are excellent.

As a matter of fact, we’re going to the dentist this week and I’m going to ask him, but I’m very confident his reply will be a politer version of my comment above because what you’re saying is untrue. Breastfeeding is best: for health, for speech - and for teeth.

@PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting

"Anyway, knowing that my DiL was exhausted for most of the time made me wish that I could give her a helping hand - well two hands really - but sadly my personal logistics made that impossible. However, if I was able to offer my help, I might well have tried to rock my DGC to sleep for daytime naps, so that my DiL would be able to trust me to look after her dear little one. So I think it is entirely possible that your MiL, Peach, was actually and genuinely, cack handily trying to help you."

in this scenario wouldn't you ask "how can I help?" Isn't that a normal response? Or "how do you usually settle him?" Not refusing to let the baby have the comfort it clearly wants. You wouldn't refuse to acknowledge a baby's mother as the one the baby wants most, and the authority on what her child needs, would you? Because that would be very undermining and hostile. If you wanted to be respectful and genuinely helpful you'd ask her for direction.

I wouldn't be sending DH and DS without you. That will not make them back off at all, quite the opposite, you won't be there to put your foot down and DH will allow her to try becuase she'll guilt trip him.

Go to a softplay or park while the cleaner is there and reduce your visits. And quite frankly, if they ask why say "I've started to feel uncomfortable becuase you refuse to give me my child when he's crying and when I ask for him, so I don't enjoy our visits at the moment." They don't care how they're making you or DS feel, so don't protect them from their own behaviour.

The difference between cack-handedly trying to help and being overbearing is clear from the MIL’s response when the DIL says she wants her own baby back.

My MIL was absolutely wonderful, so I’m inclined to think most MILs mean well. But any MIL who doesn’t return the baby to the mother on request is completely out of order.

@PeachShark, it always fascinates me how so many Mumsnetters actually know why a stranger's MiL does or says what does. Do these all knowing Mumsnetters know exactly when a woman changes from being an individual female with all her faculties and sensibilities, into a MiL, and in this case a Grandmother too, who suddenly share all of the same characteristics and views on life - especially with relation to their DiLaws?

I wonder if it is as easy a transition as the second they become a MiL, or the second the baby's body leaves the protection of it's Mothers womb? As I am in my 60's, and both a MiL and a Granny, I presume that I unknowingly passed into this horrendous phase of life when at least one of those two (amazing, wonderful and very blessed) occurrences, happened.

I find it so sad to think that my DiL has to now deal with me, a nosy and bossy MiL, and Granny to her children, who's main aim in life (now that I have transitioned into one of "them") is to make my DiL as unhappy as possible, and to make sure that my Grandchildren always know who the most important adult in their lives is, and that I am the only one who knows how to comfort, and how to bring happiness in to their - my Grandchildren's - lives. I can only hope that none of my dearest of Granchildren "lose" me until the youngest of them is at least 20 years old!

OP, all my questions above are rhetorical ones, so please don't worry about finding an answer to them. Your MiL may be a complete cow, rather like the one I painted myself to be, but all of the PP's who are telling you exactly what and why your MiL is acting the way she does, do worry me that they are going through their lives with blinkers on. I do hope that they can learn to see things from more than one viewpoint or angle, which does of course make life quite a bit harder to manage, as one needs to put a lot more thought into any given situation...

Lastly, I do actually think that your MiL's words and actions might/could be coming from a good place. I don't/can't know whether they are or not, as I don't know her at all (well, as far as I am aware, I don't know her 🙄), so I can't know her sufficiently well enough to know the reasons for her words and deeds.

So, I will give an example of my own thoughts: My DiL is a brilliant Mum (and Wife to my Son, and DiL to me). Unfortunately, my DiL - like many first-time mums - is still almost costantly exhausted, just as I was with my first child, until she went to a fabulous nursery, and I went back to work. When I returned to work my DH no longer had any excuses for not doing his fair share of 'being the parent in charge of any night duties that cropped up'. My DD was also still breast fed at bed-time, or as a comfort feed during the day, but that was mainly for comfort - and a sweet way to get her sleepy, and also hopefully a lovely way to try to keep her belly reasonably full for a few hours at night-time!

Anyway, knowing that my DiL was exhausted for most of the time made me wish that I could give her a helping hand - well two hands really - but sadly my personal logistics made that impossible. However, if I was able to offer my help, I might well have tried to rock my DGC to sleep for daytime naps, so that my DiL would be able to trust me to look after her dear little one. So I think it is entirely possible that your MiL, Peach, was actually and genuinely, cack handily trying to help you.

Please don't take any Mumsnetters views - including mine of course - as being correct OP, as only someone who has known you all for a considerable length of time, would have any realistic chance of reaching the right conclusions, and/or suggesting reasonable courses of action for the near future.

My MIL was like this and I know a few who are. I think it's definitely a thing that happens to some new grandparents, but I don't want to say it's typical and certainly not acceptable.

Solidarity. It really marred my time with my baby, feeling she was constantly being prised from my arms or that my status as her mum was being denied. I felt like I was merely the purveyor of baby and that after producing her I was meant to vanish.

I have to say it's got better since my daughter got bigger and was able to be independently alone with her grandmother and interact the way MIL wants, eg crafts puzzles books etc. There's still the odd occasion where I feel completely undermined but getting my partner onside has been vital and he's really good at spotting MIL's behaviour and challenging it now. He used to take the "oh, you know what she's like" attitude but he knows now it's not as easy for me to let it roll off me than it is for him, her marvellous son.

Wishing you best of luck! Don't let anyone make you feel you should tolerate this beyond what you're comfortable with.

Not normal.
I had DC quite late in life and my PIL are elderly. Not once have they overstepped.
There was a point when DC was tiny and DH had to go back to work. MIL offered to bring me a meal if I didn't feel up to cooking, said I was welcome to come over, and when I did, gave me tea and cake and told me to put the pop-up cor wherever.
When it was meal time, they asked if there was anything they could do to help. When DC wanted feeding, they gave me space to breastfeed.
I'm very grateful that they're like this.

@BananaPeanutToast equally, self soothing / settling is a developmental stage….around 5-7 mths can be considered the optimum time to learn, if you leave it a lot later the baby may well become entrenched in routines and fight any attempts a parent makes to get them to self settle. Most parents who work or then want to get pregnant again with their next may need to have a baby who can self settle ,not everyone has the time and energy to bf their kids to sleep til age 3!

@BananaPeanutToast please do your research. “Breastfeeding until one year of age is not associated with an increase in caries; it can even offer protection compared to formula feeding. However, recent studies have observed that in babies who are breastfed for more than 12 months, the risk of caries is increased. In addition, there is a direct connection between prolonged breastfeeding beyond 24 months and the severity of decay in deciduous dentition 19]. taken fromhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8067957/. Basically it is important to brush your babies teeth if extended BF.

And sorry you've had some super oversensitive replies from formula feeders. I totally got what you meant.

How dare they! Not normal at all. Stand up for yourself and your baby. I'd be saying 'no, he is fed to sleep, give him to me now please'. Every time.

ODFOD

one of mine was breastfed until 3 years old and has the most incredible teeth - that is simply not true and our dentist said the polar opposite

She settled to sleep absolutely fine once BF finished. I’d wager you have no actual experience

@PeachShark totally off the point here OP but just to flag , feeding to sleep ( whether by breast or bottle!) creates a rod for your own back ,your baby is well overdue learning how to settle themselves…plus once a baby has teeth they should be brushed last thing before sleep , there’s an association between extended BF and dental caries in young kids for this reason!

It sounds very tiresome, OP and I don’t think you need to subject yourself to it if you don’t want to. Especially when your DH isn’t going with you.

But it does sound like you're handling it well and if you could take some pride in the way you are holding your boundaries to your DC’s benefit, you might feel better about it?

For instance, this line: ”I’d rather respond to his needs” is perfect. You are the one with the power here. You are the one who knows your DC’s needs. You are the one who puts him first. You are the one who can decide what happens. Keep that central in your mind when you go to see your PiL and you might be able to see past the idea they are criticising you to the insecurity and powerlessness that makes them want to diminish your role to exaggerate their own.

Is there anything as utterly cringe as grandparents trying to relive their youth by foisting themselves on their daughters/DIL's.
I think give them a firm talking to and then simply withdraw if it doesn't land.
The amount of stress new mothers endure and first years spoiled by these needy, batshit idiots.
They invariably make poor grandparents as its all about THEM.
Step away OP, let your husband bring the baby to them and mind your stress levels walking the dog.
Be a LOT less available.

Yep, they’re jealous and think they know best. My ex-MIL said to me, “Are you still breastfeeding, DC? When are you going to stop?” DC was around 5 months old 🙄

Reduce your visits and make sure your DH is with you. If they comment on the reduced visits, then your DH can say how weird and upsetting you find their behaviour, and that it’s cruel to your DC.

Op sorry I just saw this. I'm sorry but no.. hubby has got his rose glasses on.. not allowing you near baby when you wants is not coming from a good place it's coming from a problematic place. If you care then you hand the baby back. I'm sorry but absolutely do not accept that it's from a good place crap. A reasonable perso does not keep a baby away from mum at feeding time or insists on rocking baby to sleep. Absolutely no!!

I couldn’t imagine behaving like this towards my dgc. I adore them but I am not their parent. Sometimes they just need mummy and I love that they do! Dd is such a great mum.

When they were newborn I would try and let dd sleep so would try not to disturb her but I couldn’t give them what they needed which was a feed.

Also of course it’s different if your ds is breastfed! Only you can feed him. Some people just like to be offended.

Sometimes it's not as easy as that but I do agree with you and told op something similar but as you can see from my user name lol and I'm someone who speaks up it can be really hard because the context is as it's happening we try to reason with ourselves. OK you let it go once it might have been a one off or you didn't want to make a big deal out of it and before you know it they are doing it all the time which is actually the point you're making and you're not wrong. We must speak up!!!

Some mental messages on here like this one someone send you where people sound Uber defensive about not breastfeeding. Odd.

of course it’s different when people don’t BF. I didn’t use a dummy with any of mine and because everyone I knew did, they didn’t understand that it’s trickier to get a baby to sleep without.

same with breastfeeding - when you use it to soothe and get to sleep etc it’s quite hard for others to understand if they don’t!

I wouldn’t let anyone make my baby cry by keeping them
away from my milk, no. Tell MIL to fuck off.

Whenever mine started crying they were instantly handed back to me 😂 I'd cut down contact and let your dh explain why

Why does your DH get to walk the dog and you have to go visit the in-laws?

I mean I actually get on great with my in-laws and would (and do sometimes) happily see them without DH, but clearly you don’t, so why are you going?

You walk the dog and DH can take baby to in-laws (nap and feeding time a convenient excuse to leave), or you all walk dog together, or just do something else entirely? Take your DS to the park or do the supermarket shop? Maybe DH takes dog and baby out for a walk and you can have some free time alone!

This. Just stop going! I couldn't not have a word with them about this though. I'd just have to communicate politely why their behaviour when your baby needs you is unacceptable and you are his mother, not them. If it continues, stop going - or leave as soon as it happens and don't go back.

Stop going without him.

Seriously.

He needs to put a stop to this, so he needs to be there when you're there.