To think pronatalists are on to something?

Probably a bit of a "there won't be enough white people" thing as well.

Desolate? I hate to break it to you but we are not the only living species on this planet. Our closest relatives are critically endangered through human activity. Who's to say the human race is more important than the orangutan? They contribute to the regeneration of the planet with every movement they make. Humans just wreck it.

The way to look forward positively is to think up ways to encourage highly educated women to have 2-5 DCs rather than 0-2

It is so difficult. East Asian, Protestant Europe, Catholic Europe are all having this same problem. I think Lee Kwan Yew suggested paying female graduates a child bonus (iirc) but it wasn’t widely supported at that time.

Tbh I think a common denominator is a lack of marriageable men. But that’s just my opinion

I've just read it. My main takeaway was they are clearly damaged people who should have invested in therapy rather than selecting babies based on criteria they view as desirable, having a child every 18 months, then neglecting them to the point of abuse. I'll take the end of humans if that's how we're meant to increase populations.

We need to be kind to each other and our environment, respect it and make positive changes, not whatever bullshit these people are spouting.

Pretty sure that this form of capitalism we are currently living in where standards of living are falling for ordinary people such that many people in the UK can’t afford to feed, clothe or house themselves let alone their kids, through no fault of their own, is sorting out the population crisis for us all by itself. Only the very rich will be able to afford a baby in future. And even then, they will have very few.

Can’t grow human population forever. It’s a close system.
But you know who loves population growth?

The rich at the top.

But it wouldn’t last forever anyway. If humans were gone, the earth would go through its cycles and there would be many extinction cycles. So why are you so precious about this one? (I am precious about it because humans can thrive in this one. But you have no particular reason to care)

What on earth makes you think it’d be desolate? If we were all wiped out tomorrow by some epidemic, plants would take over. You’ve only got to look at how weeds manage to break through concrete in a short time. A large petrol station forecourt near us was left untouched for some time before redevelopment - within a couple of years you could hardly see the concrete for a forest of flourishing green plant life.

Great post. Totally agree.

There’s a pretty big gulf between - would be nice if I could have 3 kids - and - I am willing to have Caesarean after caesarean, factoring that I will likely haemorrhage at some Point which could put my life at risk, until I have at least 7 children who neither me or my husband actually want to look after or parent so we get some neighbours to do it or use physical punishment because we don’t know how to do anything else.

Did you read this OP

Malcolm sees South Korea as a vision of our near future: the problem is most acute in countries that are “technophilic, pluralistic, educated, where women have rights”.

Damn women for having rights!

Ps we do need children but we can't assume indefinite population growth. Stabilising is hard but necessary.

Honestly?

We sort of need to accept that the transition to lower population growth will be uncomfortable, but allow it to happen. Younger people will need to be more involved- instead of just children caring for elderly grandparents, grandchildren will need to help. Also - we will have to pragmatic and draw a line regarding medical treatment to prolongue the lives of people in poor health. We cannot and should not live forever

The OP on that thread was being wildly unrealistic, but you're not wrong.

Oh ffs humans aren’t going to go extinct

It won't be a desolate planet. The point is that humanity dying out might allow the planet to regenerate and recover from all the harm we've done. No humans present doesn't equal desolation.

Yep!

And that's actually quite an important part of their point. Odd as they are, they're not wrong that secular rationalist people like them are having many fewer kids than the more religious. That some values are much more likely to be transmitted to a next generation than others.

That's only a short-term fix - fertility rates among immigrant groups typically adjust to the level of the host country.

I don't get why you think a "crisis of eldery people" is going to be the biggest issue we face in coming decades. You're looking at the wrong problem.

The fact is that the planet cannot support an ever-growing global population, in terms of fresh water availability and land needed for food production. The ONLY sensible solution, especially given the climate crisis that's well underway and is impacting food production globally already, is to discuss global population reduction - but nobody wants to because it would be political suicide.

If you're interested in a short, informative read, try a book called Ten Billion by Stephen Emmott for something that may provide you a different view.

I read that in South Korea the birth rate is so low they could be almost extinct in four generations. Obviously they aren’t solving this problem by making it easier for women 🙄

They are weirdos but have a point.

its already widely known birth rate is a time bomb.

the expense and difficulty of having children is a huge factor.

due to economics people “have” to wait until later and thus have fewer children.

i saw such an interesting YouTube video on this.
the channel is two guys and their interviewed an economist about it. The trend started in Japan who are further ahead but it is going to be pretty catastrophic for all western societies.

i predict uk will move to universal basic income at some point