To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

Mine always are. Drives me insane. I recently came to do a DT project - not one piece of white card left. I hadn't used any this year. This is just ONE thing that has gone. And the rest. I do not have money in the budget to replace them next year so next year will be no craft. We can't afford it.

I voted yanbu as I rashly assumed you meant with offering or being linked to wraparound care or tea and homework clubs
living rurally we had one childminder who’d wander up to the school last minute and drag a few kids back home with her. They always looked miserable so I had to stay part time until secondary school
no after school club. Eventually a breakfast club but I didn’t need that.
was impossible to get a childminder to travel to the school from outside the village. This was pre facebook days tho so not easy to find people

Why do people continue to make the argument that because some DC go to wraparound care, that means it's possible for all schools to provide on premises wraparound for all parents who need it? The existence of childminders who cover primary aged DC tells us the square root of bugger all about the viability of programmes in a completely different setting.

As has been pointed out a looooooot of times now, we don't even have enough teachers and TAs for the current school day. There are not other ones ready to swoop in to work split shifts for 4 hours a day.

And school roles haven't been like hen's teeth for years now. It's not the 2010s any more. There's no evidence that this workforce you're talking about actually exists.

Excuse me? Don’t know why you’re having a go at me about it. Where has anyone said that teachers are the only ones who work hard? I certainly never had and I don’t know any teacher who has either.

I work hard but there’s far more hard working and stressful jobs out there where it is actually a matter of life and death.

My post asks the question of when would we have time to do all the things we do unpaid? I am paid from 8:30-3:30. But I do so many more hours than that.
And no I don’t want a fucking pay increase either before anyone starts on that, I just want education to be funded properly. And yes the holidays are marvellous. And I am lucky to have so much of them.

Stop school at 1pm like on the continent? Never going to happen in this country. Our education system is fucked. And can you even imagine the outcry. Lazy teachers etc.

This is what I keep saying. WHO is going to want to work say 7-9am and then 3-6pm.
And are all these parents who want to work 9-3 going to take on these jobs/ the shit shifts once their kids are old enough?
Say you work as a receptionist and you have young kids so you work 9-3. But the office is open until 8pm. Are you going to happily change shifts to work 3-8pm once your kids are adults to allow other parents to do the early shift?

France has a 9-5 school day. A French friend told me it's mandatory and her mother wanted to take her for half days but it wasn't allowed, one of the reasons she moved away with her kids. On the flip side I believe there isn't a huge amount of 'mum guilt' because that's the way it is. Also it's normal to put your child in nursery earlier. I think we need to look at other models of care to facilitate working parents and see what's been done elsewhere (not suggesting the French way) The reality is there's an inherent unfairness and burden of responsibility re childcare on women and very little support or joint up thinking.

How do you organise this before you have children? Your relationship could
break down, your job change, move house, child care settings might close, parents might become unwell and no longer help. There’s too many variables between getting pregnant and child being in school full time - nearly 6 years!

YABU

The purpose of school is to educate children. It is not for childcare, so no the working hours of parents should not dictate the length of the school day.

If you have children, you need to factor in how you manage childcare, including how you pay for it.

The state would have to pick up the tab for extra staff (you can’t just decide teachers are now having mandatory 10 hour days, so you would need extra staff) and that would not be cheap. Money far better spent on actually educating children.

But who are these different people? They'd either have full time jobs of their own or have children that need childcare too.

Phew.

@Luddite26

Of course it’s not.

But school and childcare are still set up for this scenario. For example, wrap around finishing at 4pm and holiday schemes being beyond the financial reach of many and often not eligible to be submitted for UC payments.

The fact is that women predominantly are being constrained to work part time or during term time due to inadequate provision. And it shouldn’t be this way because it is the 21st century! And we are in an economic environment where, unless one of you earns well in excess of the average income, both parents need to work.

Is that really the idealistic scenario @Unjustifiable marrying a big money man? It's the 21st Century after all.

@Seashor

This is harsh.

There can be contraceptive failures.

Relationships may break down due to a multitude of reasons such as bereavement, abuse, financial issues such as redundancy, infidelity.

Parents and/or children can develop disabilities.

Sometimes parents die.

Shit happens.

Not everyone gets the idealistic scenario of marrying a big money man who remains faithful and allows you to fart about on a 2 1/2 - 4 day week for pin money, making you available for school collections and homework time.

I think what would be fair for those earning less is that they get free on site wrap around care and more support, provided they are using the time for work. And summer schemes need to have work friendly hours.

Where in Germany is this?

When I worked in Germany, they had the same issues with childcare that we do in the U.K. Particularly for those parents who were working 9-5 as the local school system ran 7:15-12:15 on 3 days and 8:00-1:30 on the other 2.

Anything outside of this was definitely paid for and tended to be centred around music and sport. Encouraging the elderly to do voluntary childminding was even being encouraged at the time!

Isn't this already being rolled out as a government policy? It was announced at the same time as the new 15 hr funding for 9month old. I'm assuming paid for but wider availability. I think the first 'new' wraparound ones start sept 2024 in some areas, but it will be gradual.

For what it's worth, I'm a teacher and my dd goes to breakfast club and afterschool club. Wraparound care was right at the top of my list when choosing a school. My dh is a tradie who leaves the house at 6.30 so can't do normal drop or pick up time either. There's quite a few dads who do drop off and/or pick up in my dd's class, but it is definitely predominantly women.

Yes. But work doesn't mean you get to opt out of looking after your own children. Mother's don't. So if you put up with father's opting out, more fool you. But don't complain schools aren't doing enough when your own partner isn't doing enough.

@OriginalUsername2

Because childcare is first come first served. Not pre-booked at conception.
🤣

@Seashor is making inflammatory comments. No one is that publicly ignorant.

Not since so many became Academies and were transferred into their control

What I also wouldn’t like to see is forced use of classrooms for externally run after
school clubs.

i teach in a lovely ks1 classroom which is full of lovely toys, games, puzzles and resources that I have either brought in from home or bought myself for my children. I teach them to look after it all. Just like the pencils, felt tips which I have bought because mine run out at Easter and we have no school budget left. Yes, I shouldn’t do this, but I have, and I would be devastated if they were all used, moved, broken or messed with by an after school club!

@TheYoungestSibling
Which would be good but who is going to run these? And who is going to clean and secure the premises afterwards. And what happens if the after school care isn't viable. Who will arrange transport from one school to the " hub" What about academies, the local authority have so say in those.

It is definitely a good idea but it's not as easy as just saying " schools should get with the times". It shouldn't be down to schools to sort, it's not their remit, but whose responsibility would it be?

There's wrap around care for that. Let children enjoy their childhood. 10 hours in school sounds awful.

I don't want the teaching day to be longer or teachers to have even more workload.

But if your proposal is that these buildings could have a second use as a childcare before and after school and perhaps in the holidays, and that children could have the option of using say 3pm to 6pm for homework, sports, hobbies, cubs, etc, then I'm all for it.

I think what you should say OP is all schools should have adequate wrap around care as needed by working parents and I know some in our area don’t have this which is bonkers!

The local authorities could make some decent money running joint primary school holiday clubs for a large area of primary schools in a primary school setting. There’s a local holiday club at a school and it’s always so busy / places fill up fast as it’s a half decent price, working hours and multiple schools can use it.

Children can’t be in school 10 hours a day. The real need is for state subsidised childcare as they do in Scandanavia or part-time jobs for parents that actually pay at a professional level. Quite normal in the Netherlands for parents to have part-time jobs and there is little stigma about it. Nothing will change until people agitate for these things and the social norm about childraising as a social good is established, rather than as an inconvenience for capitalistic gain. The government can afford it. They can afford the Rwanda scheme, wasting billions on HS2 on consultancy fees, and would rather prioritise that.

Its also a low wages and high cost of living issue.

When I was young , one full-time wage was enough. Where two parents worked long hours in a high pressured job they would have earned enough to afford a childminder or nanny. Now millions of couples are working ridiculous hours for low wages and rely on the state to cover the child care gap because they have no choice. Its just not sustainable.