To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

And yet many schools do provide it @PTSDBarbiegirl as wraparound care.

Oh God, not again.
Lobby to have inexpensive, very high quality childcare subsidised and carried out by skilled, well paid staff. School is for education. If teachers were covering 8-6 they'd be paid for 11 hour days or more. Currently it's a 7 hour day, 35 hour week deal. Are you really thinking 65 hours a week would work, including the non class contact time required each day. Could schools even afford that?!!! Approx £95k per year hahaha.

Then you clearly didn't read the mortgage paperwork prior to going ahead with it, which would have clearly stated an example of what you'd be paying, if the mortgage rates "went up quite a lot". This is your own fault for not planning ahead, you should never have expected interest rates to stay low. Had you considered this, as your mortgage documents suggest you do, then you should have realised you would struggle, then buy a cheaper house instead. As for not having a child back then either, you either should have considered the financial impact of having a child before doing so, or taken extra precautions.

You give no consideration for the poor children that you want in school for such long days. Why not campaign for fathers to pull their weight with parenting in order to reduce gender inequality in the workplace? This makes more sense rather than shifting longer days onto children and staff in underfunded schools.

I wouldn’t want my children in school for 10 hours a day. We both work but work opposites so the kids always have me or DH here.

The irony is some workplaces run rather like schools - they have set hours and don’t like employees to arrive late or leave early. It’s almost like the people running these businesses once went to school and learned that everyone must attend for exactly the same hours with no flexibility.

This really isn't about dads not being involved. Every child that regularly uses wraparound care in my daughter's class is picked up as regularly by their dad as their mum. It's about work places being too inflexible to accomodate any parent regardless of gender and it's about the cost of living being so sky high that this is the reality of surviving for many families

And if a long day learning is harmful to kids then why are they set HOMEWORK - which sometimes is too much for a tired child at the end of the day?

It’s funny how kids MUST ATTEND between 9am and 3pm, at the risk of parents being fined or jailed if a child has too many days off. But once the school day is officially over then apparently it is neglectful or harmful for the same kids to spend another hour or so playing games or colouring in at the same building! Makes no sense at all.

And near-100% attendance is required except, of course, for 13 weeks a year when school is on holiday, making childcare hard for all parents who only get five or six weeks off a year.

Lots of people being sniffy and judgemental about children being in wraparound care. But also, we live in an age where two working parents is essential to survival to most families. So what the hell do you want people to do? Either be rich enough to have one part time/SAH parent, or be on benefits? With no one inbetween?

Breakfast club kids eat cornflakes and fanny around playing games in the hall for half an hour before school. After school club kids do drawing, watch movies and play games with their friends for 2-3 hours after school. Or play outside in summer. That’s not “too much”, it’s not going to scar them for life.

When I was a child, I had a stay at home parent, and we sat in front of childrens tv with biscuits and squash every day after school. Really don’t see how my child watching films, playing games or drawing pictures with her friends is more damaging.

OP, I am with you! My kids are fully grown now but I have always thought it a huge problem that there is a mis-match between school hours and work hours.

When my kids were at primary there was no wraparound childcare. I remember when Ruth Kelly was Education Secretary she proposed “Kelly Hours” - a breakfast club and after-school club. All the teachers were against it because they imagined they would have to run it. But no, the school put the work out to tender and an already existing private company was happy to come in and run it. The teachers insisted nobody would need it but in fact there was a big uptake. Because parents do want to be able to fit work in with having kids.

Most kids would not be there 8 to 6 but some might need an early drop-off and others an after-school slot. And not always every day of the week.

I worked anti-social hours, I was always around in the mornings but not always in the afternoons, and let’s face it, 3.15pm as a finish time does not fit in with most jobs.

I didn’t work every day of the week but when I was working my DH could do after-school pickups but not until 5pm. This is surely not that unusual for families. We could juggle to an extent but we did need childcare. A couple of days a week of being at a club until 5pm is not like being sent to boarding school or an orphanage!

Most offer breakfast and after school clubs. As a teacher I used these for my own DC then went to my own job.

Breakfast clubs and after school are available in most primaries? X

I’m assuming you’re joking and also have no clue how schools, their funding and the entire education system works. If you’re not joking then get a childminder would be my suggestion. Schools are not childcare. They are YOUR children and responsibility……

As if teachers and school staff don’t have enough to do between nappy changes, teeth brushing, parenting etc, now they must work longer hours because fathers are too busy and important to help juggle childcare 🤦🏾‍♀️.

Your post should be about provision of wrap around care being more equal around the country rather than schools being open 8-6 imo.

I assume that it’s business reasons why provision is unequal - stuff like small schools having less demand and no space to accommodate the service but someone here will know better.

How freaking judgy can you get?!

My 6YO is at wraparound from 7:30 til 6pm 3 days a week because that's life. Dad and I both work. That's life. We have no reliable family support nearby. I've gone part time but I simply can't afford to give up my job completely as much as I'd love too and no doubt the same perfect parents on here would be labelling me lazy and a benefits scrounger if I did. Mothers literally cannot win, sigh

For what it's worth my child adores after school club, met one of her best friends there and it's very relaxed. She used to cry when I picked her up instead actually. It isn't the root of all evil

We used to leave school at 4 o’clock and get home at about 4:30. Nowadays I see children leaving school at 2:30. That leaves them on their own for a long time each day if both parents are at work. Schools don’t need to have a ten hour day to make things easier for working parents. A sensible length for the school day would be a help.

My infant school aged children were in bed by 7/7.30. I can’t imagine compulsory 10hr schooling and I wouldn’t have wanted it.

I think later start/finish times might work for secondary school children though but not longer days.

This!!!

I used to have to drop mine off at a.cm at 730 then one of us picked up at just before 6 from cm or after school club. We all breathed a sick of relief once we hit high school: they now leave when they want and are home to chill by 4.

I'm a teacher. I need to be in work by 8. Earlier still in exam session. Ideally, earlier. Dh starts work at 8 too. Add in commute time and our kids just had to get on with it.

The education system like every other public service in this country is a shit show. Yes most parents need more support to manage day to day but IMO convenient babysitting isn't the priority for our education system.

Watching my older nieces/nephews going through to secondary school I've come to the conclusion that my 6YO is receiving adequate primary education but that I am definitely one of the lucky ones. I've come to the conclusion that secondary education is such a shambles the only way she'll stand a chance of suceeding in higher education is hiring a private tutor or private school, neither of which I particularly can or want to afford.

Good quality early years education is absolutely vital (especially in a society where increasingly both parents have to work) yet again it is poorly subsidised and we're lucky to find good quality early years providers. Lots of afterschool and breakfast clubs are actually run by nurseries so do I think said wraparound clubs should be subsidised at the expense of early years? Absolutely not.

We have a generation of kids and parents who are becoming completely disillusioned and hostile towards the education system and a teaching workforce who is burnt out or walking out because they're effectively being shit on from above and below.

There's much bigger problems with the education system and society in general here OP and we should have fought against these problems a decade ago but here we are....

I don't blame the school but why does holiday club start and finish an hour earlier than breakfast and after school club?

I'm a teacher and I run 2 holiday clubs. My holiday time is precious but like many I find it difficult to make ends meet so have no choice but to pick up additional work. My holiday club is full, regardless of the shorter hours. No one can force me to run the holiday club: it is run on my terms or not at all. Believe me, I have heard it all. All moaning will achieve is I stop doing my, rather niche, clubs and work for someone else instead.

8am - 6pm is longer than a standard working day for ADULTS. If you want to drop them off for 8am, what time will you leave the house? They’ll be needing to wake-up before 7am. What time will the poor little blighters have their dinner? Say 7pm? In bed at 8pm? That’s way too late for KS1 kids. When will they have time to relax if they are in school 8am-6pm Mon-Fri? They’ll be utterly exhausted.

Your children sound like an inconvenience. They are in school to learn, not to be looked after while you work. Honestly, I think some parents need to take stock and think about what life is really about.

I agree with others that the model used by a number of other countries, of school roughly 8am-1pm, with that time being focused on academic study (and a short lunch break); followed by separate and non-mandatory sessions from say 1-3 or 1-4 for arts, sports, music etc would be great. This would require a greater number of teachers / paid adults though, as people would be needed to run the arts and sports and music etc in the afternoons. In an ideal world those sessions would be fully funded for families who wanted their children to participate, and then there would be optional paid for less structured time after that for families that require it. It would hopefully reduce teachers’ working days, making it a less unattractive career prospect (they would work 8-1 plus the extra required for planning, marking, meetings etc, but hopefully 1-1.5 hours less a day; or 1-4 plus the extra hours) as well as providing more educational opportunities to children (art, music, sport etc every day). It would also help working parents. The question as ever is how this would be funded, and how the staff would be found.

Of course they bloody do..DH has always dropped DS off, as it was on his way to work and opposite direction to me, plus I went earlier. I picked up for the first 18 mo and now DH does as the SAHP while I work 45 hr weeks....

Edited as read the thread and it stated wrap around care is full.