To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

Schools are organised as a training ground for factory life. Everyone must attend at the same time, wear the exact same clothing, conform to the rules and there is little flexibility. Conformity, not imagination, is the main thing taught by our education system.

In fact this is why education became universal and free in Victorian times, to prepare a workforce for industrialised Britain.

There is so much hatred on this thread for parents who might want a bit of extra provision for their kids at the beginning or end of the day. But is it better for a child to have parents who work and provide a decent standard of living or parents on benefits surviving on the breadline?

I always took the view it was better for my kids for me to continue in a well-paid job and so provide a good life for them. It meant a lot of juggling, use of a childminder, a nanny for a short while, after-school clubs etc. I wasn’t lucky enough to have grandparents around to help.

Parents on benefits have infinite time to spend with their kids and yet those kids do not necessarily have a better life. Nor do they have a role model to show them how to earn their own living. But the contempt always seems to be for the mums who are working (as if it is some sort of greed) and not for the mums who are not (and so cannot afford coats for their kids or whatever).

Lack of childcare flexibility and availability is the No1 reason women have to abandon decent careers once they become mothers. So I do think more options should be available. Maybe if you are used to working in the inflexible environment of a school it’s hard to imagine this?

I didn’t say they weren’t. I said the majority of parents who require wraparound care are offices based. I am also not saying wraparound care should be dropped.

There's also the issue of ensuring enough children will enrol in the wraparound care to make it viable. Yes, these companies can pay to use school buildings, but the insurance they'll need to take out to operate on the premises won't be cheap. Then you've got to ensure all staff have safeguarding training and are DBS checked. It's also, despite OP thinking the solution is simply to draft in non-teachers to work, not actually an attractive work prospect – just above minimum wage for a few hours an afternoon or morning.

Yep-and evenings for the shift workers!

You are, of course, assuming that everyone works Monday-Friday, 9-5.

Or does your proposal extend to weekends? Overnights? Bank holidays? 🤔

Exactly!

I agree with the posts saying about better wrap around provision not more teaching. Teachers need wrap around too, I know a single parent teacher who has struggled to get the childcare they need.

If people want low cost, readily available, subsidised childcare like the Swedish model, fine-but are you prepared for the tax hikes?.

Absolutely-the taxes would be huge for this. Considering the vast majority of people don’t have young children needing it, I doubt it would be particularly popular. I think more people would rather have the money put into funding schools themselves properly or having a functioning health service.

Teachers have families too.
Teaching isn't childcare.

A huge number of jobs are not office based. Every single job I've done since I was 15 in fact and my child is now an adult.

In my ideal world where money is no object and we live in a utopia, schools would be open 8-6 but only 9-3 would be compulsory and staffed by teachers.

The rest of the time it would be staffed by youth workers, counsellors, play leaders, sports coaches etc., and offer various opportunities including counselling, arts and sports activities, games, etc. Essentially providing a safe space for kids to hang out, get support and widen their horizons.

I’m have no skin in this at all but I do know that our local rural schools have been approached by the County Council and asked to try and provide a plan and costing for 8 til 6 wrap around care. It may be on its way in some areas.

That’s such a long day for little children. Most adults work 9-5. I walk into school at 8am and chn have been in breakfast club since 7.45. I walk out around 4pm and kids are still there until 6. I’m tired so I feel for them.

There will always be a ‘what about X’, which isn’t a reason not to make schooling hours in line with working hours, which would make life infinitely easier for the majority of working parents – the overwhelming majority of parents who work and use wraparound care are office-based, 9-5 workers. Additionally, nowhere did I say to remove wraparound care.

I don’t know any child that would cope with being in school 8-6 and I don’t know any teacher that would either.

It is not just schools that fail to recognise that both parents work in many cases. Whilst I don't think schools should have longer hours, recognition can come in matters such as longer notice of events, perhaps in accepting online parents evenings/afternoons, for example.

Employers who are unreasonable about attendance all the time in an office when some days could be wfh are another example, utilities and postal companies not doing appointments but all morning/day time windows yet another.

Working mothers have been the majority for at least 40 years and society should have adapted to this ages ago.

I had all my shit sorted out and it worked great for DD….. then I has DS with SEN and all my sorted out shit went to shit. Childcare now, to meet his needs, is a nightmare!

Bearing in mind the events of the last few years, do you really think anyone with a primary aged child now could've accurately predicted the situation in which we now find ourselves?

The combination of spiralling inflation shrinking childcare sector, dropping birthrates and increased remote working making some forms of provision less viable, smaller workforce, impact of covid... all of these have played their part. Speaking as a parent of primary aged DC, I certainly didn't foresee this 2024 coming, back in the 2010s. And I don't believe anyone who says they did.

How about people think about whether they have the time and money to be able to look after their children properly and meet their needs before starting a family?

The answer is, essentially, because it would cost the taxpayer billions to fund. Look at the strain on nurseries with additional funded hours. The government won’t step up and fund wrap around care until they are what, 16? When they are struggling to commit to kids up to 4. Staff won’t work for free and the tax receipts from the extra hours worked by parents probably wouldn’t pay the additional cost needed.

Schools are not childcare

Oh, and if we had to use the school hall for after school care, we wouldn't be able to provide the free after school clubs that teachers volunteer to run!

We run a breakfast club at school. All the staff who run it are teaching assistants in the school because no one else wants to work 7.30 to 8.45 term time only. We are lucky that the TAs will do so, mainly because they have to supplement the ridiculously low pay scales they have. We get around 30-40 children most days and charge £4 a day so it is just about financially viable. And our TAs are also working as dinner ladies because we can't recruit those either- who wants to work 11.30 to 1.00 each day either?
But we can't run after school provision too, we don't have the staff willing to do it. And the demand isn't there. A local private nursery collects but some days they only have 1-2 children attending. It's not financially viable. Forcing schools to provide wraparound care isn't the solution when the demand just isn't there.

An issue with sharing space with outside providers is a very practical day to day one of equipment being moved, misplaced or broken keys being lost, students' work being damaged or moved etc. A teacher's classroom is quite a personal space and it's quite invasive and inconvenient to have to put anything personal or important away securely every day. I have to clear my room for holiday lets and without fail I end up coming back to missing chairs, dings in the wall, scribble on the tables, ripped display work, missing staplers etc. This may sound petty and trivial but if it was a daily thing it would make my teaching day impossible.

My post was not based on anything life has thrown at me, so please, don’t feel sorry for me.

I had a wonderful father (deceased), an amazing stepfather and a great co-parent.

The OP says men can do what you do, but they don’t. I believe that’s who your argument should be with.

Carry on being an effective parent 👏🏾