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Paula Vennels being questioned at the Post Office Inquiry, followed by others - thread 2

961 replies

nauticant · 24/05/2024 09:29

A continuation of the discussion started by@Sausagenbaconhere:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5080262-to-enjoy-hearing-paula-vennels-being-taken-apart

Paula Vennells' 3 days of evidence ends today but there are more hearings coming up and we can discuss those too.

When the hearings are going on, live-streaming can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/featured

All of the previous hearings can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

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nauticant · 06/06/2024 10:17

JB: Why did you use the word "alibi" in relation to your view of Susan Crichton? [He then has to explain to AP what an alibi is.]

AP: Although I wrote "alibi" I didn't mean "alibi".

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PerkingFaintly · 06/06/2024 10:14

She does such a good sad-voice when blaming Susan Chrichton!

nauticant · 06/06/2024 10:11

JB: Why was the board obsessed with liability, including personal liability, suggesting knowledge of the legal problems, while you're saying now that at the same time no one on the board knew of the legal problems?

Answer from AP was to throw Chris Day under the bus. She must have spent her life being disaapointed in people all being so rubbish.

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PerkingFaintly · 06/06/2024 10:01

My laptop has just flat refused to stream AP's testimony this morning, presumably in disgust.

I'm in now, after significant coaxing. But I can't really blame it.

nauticant · 06/06/2024 09:56

Back to how the board could find itself in ignorance of significant facts. Three things can all have been happening:
Sometimes the executive withheld critical documents and information from the board to keep a lid on things.
And:
The main information flow to the board, Vennells to AP, was often done verbally with no record kept of briefings (this was confirmed by AP), and it's likely some critical information was conveyed by this conduit but there's no record so knowledge can be denied.
And:
When information did manage to get to the board, and there is a record of it, AP tended not to recognise its significance (which coincidentally suited the executive keeping a lid on things).

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KnitnNatterAuntie · 06/06/2024 06:41

dewfirst · 05/06/2024 23:05

I’m watching this on YouTube to catch up but getting so angry I think I will switch it off or won’t be able to sleep .
What a load of useless, self serving overpaid shits this lot are proving to be . How much precious tax has this mess cost us all ??? Beggars belief .
I will watch tomorrow though - must be a glutton for punishment .

I was the same . . . when AP said she was tired, I wondered how many nights those poor SPM's stayed up, desperately trying to balance their accounts . . .

dewfirst · 05/06/2024 23:05

I’m watching this on YouTube to catch up but getting so angry I think I will switch it off or won’t be able to sleep .
What a load of useless, self serving overpaid shits this lot are proving to be . How much precious tax has this mess cost us all ??? Beggars belief .
I will watch tomorrow though - must be a glutton for punishment .

PlacidPenelope · 05/06/2024 21:08

Firstly, yes they are all coming across as gormless idiots,

The public should demand all the money back that they were paid as they took the money under the false pretence that they could do the job for which they were being paid.

I know it is a ploy, I believe they all knew exactly what was going on.

I would have far more respect for them if they just put their hands up and said We were totally and utterly wrong and we completely fucked up. All this lying, obfuscation and pleading the poor deluded innocent is pathetic.

AutumnCrow · 05/06/2024 19:38

There is no logic in the Post Office board's 'logic'.

Which seemed to be: The system works well and anyone loudly and clearly saying that it isn't and who is contacting MPs in order to amplify this are obviously the ones who have succumbed to 'temptation' and have their 'fingers in the till'. [Quoting the PO's own words]

Is Susan Crichton due to give evidence again?

Lunde · 05/06/2024 19:32

toddlepod · 05/06/2024 18:11

Just watched Alice Perkins sessions from today. Unlike PV, who was blessed with the memory of a spongiform brain, alice has wonderful denial skills: ‘I’ve never seen x, y, z document’, followed by a wonderfully self-serving, ‘but if I had, I would obviously have initiated the course of action alluded to in accordance with the character of integrity, honour and intelligence that I obviously am’ ….

She reminds me of D’arcy’s aunt…. Had I have ever learned to play the piano, I would be proficient.

The exclusion of Susan C seems to have been of necessity in that had she been allowed to present her paper to the board, it would have been minuted and something Susan could have complained about and reported.

Yes - she does have a touch of Lady Catherine de Bourgh ....

friendlycat · 05/06/2024 18:59

It's a real mixture of trying to decide who these people actually are and how capable they actually were.

Firstly, yes they are all coming across as gormless idiots, but obviously they are playing a role here in an absolute hard nosed attempt of not saying anything of note that can actually incriminate themselves leading to a future prosecution.
This is giving the impression that they hadn't a clue what they were doing.

But there is just too much evidence that suggests that they did know what they were doing. And what they were doing was actively ignoring, playing down and wilfully avoiding any evidence presented to them that the Horizon system was not in fact robust and that there were serious bugs in the system.

It's almost as though because they believed that some people at the sharp end historically had in fact had their "fingers in the till" all Horizon was doing was proving this. Plus the fact that in relation to the numbers using the system on a daily basis who were not reporting issues, it almost allowed them to take the majority view and ignore the minority experiencing issues.

Then the major issues around negative media, separation of the two identities, floatation, not wanting to "open a can of worms" etc etc. It was a huge boiling point of denial actively played out by a board and exec who seemed to encourage each other to continue down the route of denial rather than question whether there really was merit in the fact Horizon was unsafe.

Some simply didn't believe there was anything wrong with the system so why bother investigating something they believed to be working well. Where as others had different views.

minou123 · 05/06/2024 18:27

She reminds me of D’arcy’s aunt…. Had I have ever learned to play the piano, I would be proficient.

That's brilliant @toddlepod 😁you made me laugh.

You're absolutely right

MountCaramel · 05/06/2024 18:19

toddlepod · 05/06/2024 18:11

Just watched Alice Perkins sessions from today. Unlike PV, who was blessed with the memory of a spongiform brain, alice has wonderful denial skills: ‘I’ve never seen x, y, z document’, followed by a wonderfully self-serving, ‘but if I had, I would obviously have initiated the course of action alluded to in accordance with the character of integrity, honour and intelligence that I obviously am’ ….

She reminds me of D’arcy’s aunt…. Had I have ever learned to play the piano, I would be proficient.

The exclusion of Susan C seems to have been of necessity in that had she been allowed to present her paper to the board, it would have been minuted and something Susan could have complained about and reported.

God Almighty. Where did the PO get these people from? Is that the best they can do with the salaries on offer? Bloody hell. It doesn't give you much confidence about the management class of the UK.

toddlepod · 05/06/2024 18:11

Just watched Alice Perkins sessions from today. Unlike PV, who was blessed with the memory of a spongiform brain, alice has wonderful denial skills: ‘I’ve never seen x, y, z document’, followed by a wonderfully self-serving, ‘but if I had, I would obviously have initiated the course of action alluded to in accordance with the character of integrity, honour and intelligence that I obviously am’ ….

She reminds me of D’arcy’s aunt…. Had I have ever learned to play the piano, I would be proficient.

The exclusion of Susan C seems to have been of necessity in that had she been allowed to present her paper to the board, it would have been minuted and something Susan could have complained about and reported.

nauticant · 05/06/2024 17:48

AP has been married to a high profile and notoriously slippy politician for decades. At some points I felt I could almost see him in the chair answering in the same manner with the same words.

For AP, being Chair of a large entity was just another feather in her cap. By contrast, for PV, being CEO of Post Office, and the status she got from it, was a significant part of her identity.

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MountCaramel · 05/06/2024 17:20

minou123 · 05/06/2024 15:56

I'm.not sure she has been prepped for this.

With PV it was really obvious her lawyers did practice sessions and told her how to answer the questions and she knew all the documents

Whereas AP seems to be flying by the seat of her pants. She was provided all these documents, had them for a while and should know she will be asked about them
Yet she's acting like this is the first time she's read them.
Either she did no.practice/or did not seek advice or whoever did the practice did a terrible job.

I think she's deliberately playing the gormless twit role so any evidence is useless really. There's nothing of substance the prosecution can pin her down on.

nauticant · 05/06/2024 16:39

Also remember that Davies was advising Vennells on her own personal PR on the run-up to her giving evidence to the Inquiry, many years after their professional relationship had ended.

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minou123 · 05/06/2024 16:15

nauticant · 05/06/2024 15:58

All of these senior Post Office people have a pet they want to protect. With Vennells it was the PR guy and with AP it seems to be Chris Aujard.

Yes!

I find it realky weird.

It was Mark Davies who was the Head of PR, and like Paula, he was very defensive of any criticism against her.
I watched Mark Davies evidence recently and anytime there was an email.or document which Paula had messed up, he had a very extreme reaction to any criticism.
I think at one point he said something along the lines that Paula was the best CEO (or something to that effect)

I find it a bit creepy, tbh.

Lunde · 05/06/2024 16:10

The AP defence

bots GIF
AutumnCrow · 05/06/2024 16:10

Jason Beer KC rightly pulling her up about her lack of direction and lack of setting a direction. No message from her to the organisation.

Oh hang on, now she's saying she didn't send that message then. Or maybe hmmm she's not sure. It was later she was more explicitly positive about it.

Asked abut the unsafe expert witness. She's 'getting tired now'.

Try being in jail, pal.

AutumnCrow · 05/06/2024 16:06

Now she didn't know that the Post Office was fending off scrutiny from and external review by the CCRC ...

AutumnCrow · 05/06/2024 16:00

Sir Wyn knows how significant that Bond Dickinson doc is.

nauticant · 05/06/2024 15:58

All of these senior Post Office people have a pet they want to protect. With Vennells it was the PR guy and with AP it seems to be Chris Aujard.

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Quirkyme · 05/06/2024 15:57

She's a damn fool I have to say

Lunde · 05/06/2024 15:56

AutumnCrow · 05/06/2024 15:55

Looks like it was hidden in August 2013 when 'everyone was in Tuscany'. Ooof.

Burn!

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