Paula Vennels being questioned at the Post Office Inquiry, followed by others - thread 2

Yep, that is the only conclusion I can come to - and explains their horrific treatment of the SPM's, the automatic assumption 'you're guilty as fuck and we don't care what you say'.

A very snotty, patronising attitude to their employees, considering this still must have been a sudden change in figures (as I assume they would not have been losing such sums on a regular basis without investigating it pre Horizon)... 'you're all just dirty thieves...'

That's something that has always annoyed me too, all of a sudden after years and years of paper accounting and unannounced audits a new computer system is installed and woah massive theft is going on which was never uncovered previously? Either the auditors were shit and missed it previously in which case they heed to be held accountable or there is something amiss in the computer systems recording.

The other thing that has me exasperated is the mantra insisting that Horizon was infallible, robust, no issues whatsoever. NO computer software programme is immune to bugs, not one. The bugs come to light as people use the system. How many times have bug fixes been done on Microsoft or Apple or on Banking software on ANY software/computer programme? Huge numbers of people are employed and earn damn good money finding and sorting out bugs. PV's computer literate husband could surely have told her this ffs.

You are absolutely right about the "I love the post office" comment. I think that was the most honest thing we saw. I've seen it in Universities, people who came to a prestigious academic institution as an 18 year old and never left. They absolutely love their college because it gave them a place in the world. Some of these people do become great scholars and teachers, who inspire future generations of young academics.

Unfortunately others become self serving pompous arseholes with an over inflated sense of their own worth.

Probably clutching at straws but it would be great if Jo could sue her for defamation due to the “false accounting” remark in that email…

It’s bizarre. It’s no wonder she loves the church too. The exact same sense of corporate cover up, everything is perfect masking, loving the organisation and the hierarchy more than people or genuine values. ‘I loved the post office’ may be the most tragic thing I’ve ever heard. Almost as if she saw it as a church, something holy, and horizon could do no wrong, the electronic son of corporate godheads. The fact that she kept saying she didn’t have the technical or legal expertise to know about the issues is a joke. It was nothing to do with technical or legal expertise. ANY tech system can go wrong and you don’t need tech expertise to know that. Can you imagine if our bank accounts started missing money and the banks just said tough, you stole it, it’s not possibly a bug, off to jail with you?!

I've just watched the bit where her email about Jo Hamilton was read out and she said ‘oh I deeply agree and I apologise for being so rude about you in that email.’ Doesn’t she realise that she’s the one - not Jo Hamilton - who’s made to look despicable and contemptible by that email? That her apology is completely meaningless? Apart from anything else, calling Jo passionless is hilarious since Vennells has about as much passion (and charisma) as a dead fish. It beggars belief, I wouldn’t have believed it if I hadn’t seen it.

It never fails to astonish me how many people continue to fall for the pillar of the community/upright man or woman of the cloth smokescreen with these types of people. That woman damaged so many others. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever and no truck with her pathetic crocodile tears either.

I posted earlier on this thread that having watched a few of the sessions pre the Paula ones that I was staggered by the incompetence. I’ve now changed my mind. I think they are all lying. I think Paula is definitely lying.

The only exception I’ve seen so far is Alasdair Cameron.

Been watching back on YouTube in the evenings but been following comments on here during the day.

Knew that last email would be "good" (read car crash tv) but holy 💩💩💩....! My mouth was agape through the whole thing. Wtaf is she on?

And saying Jo Hamilton lacked passion - she's sat right in front of you, she's seeing it through for all her colleagues and not just that but she's doing with it a dignity you can only dream of!!! 😡😡😡

Not that I for a second imagine Jo is in here but if she ever sees this - big virtual hug from me!

And then PV is going through her witness statement, she's got to this even by her reluctant admission horrendous email she's got time, she's written 774 other pages and the bits she highlights to feel sorry about are "unhelpful and inaccurate" and "bored more than outraged"... not the vile personal attacks levied at Jo or the fact she pats Mark what's his face on the back for doing so well when she's now saying lifestyle problems was the worst thing anyone could ever say🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

"Wild idea I know, but Paula Vennels is coming over so utterly clueless that I'm starting to wonder if she might just be a scapegoat for much bigger people in the organisation?"

That's what she wants you to think. To sow the seed that she might actually be a bit simple. Innocent little woman with her blinking and her mouth hanging open. Don't fall for it.

I think the truth here is that senior management in the PO assumed all sub postmaster were on the take. The new computer system had just revealed its extent for the first time. Multiple examples of this thinking in the enquiry.

Bit like the old response to police corruption "I never fitted anyone up who didn't deserve it".

What I cannot get over, is that apparently nobody in ALL that time, looked at the figures of, as the system portrayed it, massive theft.. and thought:

'Isn't it funny that this Horizon system is showing us huge theft related losses we've never seen before'...

And then on investigation:

'Isn't it funny that allll these SPM's are looting huge amounts of cash but haven't got a thing to show for it, no flash cars, flash houses, fancy holidays, no trace of it in their banking...noooooothing..'

I really can't get past that, that you'd roll out a new system then ignore a sudden change in trend like that!

"Reflection" is a word I grew to hate at work. Basically it was a get out of jail free card. "I may have behaved like a complete arsehole, but I promise to reflect on my behavior and think about ways I can present my arguments in a less confrontational way". This seems to get people of the hook for almost anything. If pushed, they may agree to do an online anger management course. As far as they are concerned, all is now sweetness and light. As far as the underlings who work in their dept are concerned, nothing has changed and it's only a matter of time before the next outburst of bad tempered horrendous behaviour.

Vennels did a lot of reflecting, couldn't get her use of the R word out of my head. I am sensitive to it!

That said, on reflection, I think the moment we saw the true Vennels was when she broke down in front of Stein. "I loved the Post Office" was probably the most honest thing she said over the whole 3 days.

Why would she not love the post office? Huge salary, almost celebrity status for a while, responsibility, status, even a bloody CBE. It gave her her identity and her sense of self worth.

Her love for the post office was so deep, so all consuming, and presumably endorsed by god, that she would do anything for this fantastic institution that had bestowed wealth, status and influence upon her. The future looked bright, head of the post office, and then Bishop of London. To be honest, in her position I may would love the PO too.

If you go back and look again at that moment it is striking.

Errant sub post masters were just people who stood between her and her true love.

"Reflection" is a word I grew to hate at work. Basically it was a get out of jail free card. "I may have behaved like a complete arsehole, but I promise to reflect on my behavior and think about ways I can present my arguments in a less confrontational way". This seems to get people of the hook for almost anything. If pushed, they may agree to do an online anger management course. As far as they are concerned, all is now sweetness and light. As far as the underlings who work in their dept are concerned, nothing has changed and it's only a matter of time before the next outburst of bad tempered horrendous behaviour.

Vennels did a lot of reflecting, couldn't get her use of the R word out of my head. I am sensitive to it!

That said, on reflection, I think the moment we saw the true Vennels was when she broke down in front of Stein. "I loved the Post Office" was probably the most honest thing she said over the whole 3 days.

Why would she not love the post office? Huge salary, almost celebrity status for a while, responsibility, status, even a bloody CBE. It gave her her identity and her sense of self worth.

Her love for the post office was so deep, so all consuming, and presumably endorsed by god, that she would do anything for this fantastic institution that had bestowed wealth, status and influence upon her. The future looked bright, head of the post office, and then Bishop of London. To be honest, in her position I may would love the PO too.

If you go back and look again at that moment it is striking.

Errant sub post masters were just people who stood between her and her true love.

I assume that since the prosecutions started when the PO and Royal Mail were one organisation, that RM would still bear some responsibility for earlier false convictions?

I would have liked one of the KC’s to ask her about the removal of the Horizon risk from the Royal Mail prospectus. Ok she may have been right that it shouldn’t have been there but should she not have asked the question why Royal Mail thought the risk was so significant it needed to be mentioned to potential investors?

shouldnt that risk have gone somewhere in the Post office and been appropriately managed? So as horizon was now their system not Royal Mail’s, it was now for Pol to also accept/ own whatever the risk was that RM had identified?

I guess she would have just said pol believed the system to be “robust”. Whatever the hell that means in IT terms.

I wondered how she could name the five people she thought responsible when she didn't know there was anything wrong.

Another thought occurred to me - they were trying to close post offices - so what better way to avoid redundancy payments by driving people to quit 'voluntarily'?

Perhaps I am too cynical.

Yeah mr bates raise the money. For the people that committed suicide and lost everything and went to prison. All these people

Just watching bates v post office now

It WILL go to court, most likely a private prosecution by A Bates. He can easily find raise and I'm sure after this week even the poorest will raid their piggy banks and hand over £1.

I doubt however that she will go to jail.

For a few reasons- she's be late 60s possibly by then (unless they hurry up.)

The argument would be no purpose would be served by prison. (she's not a danger to society.)

The prisons are full anyway.

She may get a community order or a fine.

There may be more corruption at the heart of government or the Civil Service that works in her favour (nod and a wink to the judge.)

I doubt that anyone who could have had the charges overturned will be criminally charged. Just going on only one person, the Sheffield Wednesday club secretary, was convicted for the Hillsborough disaster. Huw Edwards has been massively protected, as have the BBC executives who got anyone blacklisted who bad mouthed Saville. It's all gone quiet re the hospital mangers of Lucy Letby.

My impression of Vennells is that she’s self-preserving, disingenuous and yet believes she is a moral person. She’s taking pains to present herself as an ignorant bystander and a victim. It’s extraordinary.

PV has made sure to portray herself as incompetent, she has been paid a huge amount of money by taxpayers to do a job which she is saying she was totally incapable of doing, therefore in my view she should be charged with obtaining money by deception. Won't happen I know but it should.

I’m going to say something unhelpful and crass so I’m sorry… but she always has her mouth hanging open. With much blinking.