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Paula Vennels being questioned at the Post Office Inquiry, followed by others - thread 2

961 replies

nauticant · 24/05/2024 09:29

A continuation of the discussion started by@Sausagenbaconhere:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5080262-to-enjoy-hearing-paula-vennels-being-taken-apart

Paula Vennells' 3 days of evidence ends today but there are more hearings coming up and we can discuss those too.

When the hearings are going on, live-streaming can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/featured

All of the previous hearings can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

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Thread gallery
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Quirkyme · 04/06/2024 12:36

Yeah I'm finding her dry

nauticant · 04/06/2024 12:35

https://www.5essex.co.uk/profile/catriona-hodge/

Same chambers as Jason Beer KC. Emma Price is from there too, and if I'm right she was supposed to do the cross-examination yesterday but was taken ill.

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Quirkyme · 04/06/2024 12:29

I don't like the counsel today tbh

PerkingFaintly · 04/06/2024 11:27
Brew
nauticant · 04/06/2024 09:57

Today it's Chris Day, former Chief Financial Officer of Post Office.

Chris Day joined the Post Office in August 2011 from the BBC, where he had been Group Financial Controller since 2005. Prior to that, Chris spent 14 years in FMCG with Grand Metropolitan/Diageo in a succession of treasury and corporate finance roles in the UK, and as Finance Director in the Netherlands and subsequently in Germany/Austria. Earlier in his career, Chris worked as a financial management consultant at KPMG, having started his career with Beecham Group.

It's unlikely he was involved in prosecutions, and it's not clear how much he was involved in the cover up, but he was around when it was all going on, and it'll be interesting to see him being asked about where the subpostmasters money went.

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nauticant · 03/06/2024 12:33

The apology:

Whichever counsel it was it looks like they dropped the ball by not giving an earlier indication that they might not be fit to cross-examine.

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PerkingFaintly · 03/06/2024 12:05

Bah, cancelled due to inquiry's counsel being ill, and not easily replaceable at short notice.

DanielGault · 03/06/2024 12:05

Cancelled.

thetemptationofchocolate · 03/06/2024 11:38

minou123 Jo Hamilton sitting in court makes me think of avenging angels. If she were to sit there with a pair of feathery wings and a flaming sword it would match her implacable expression.

SinnerBoy · 03/06/2024 11:23

Well, that's petty, isn't it? I wonder if they can sue for breach of contract and lost earnings?

SinnerBoy · 03/06/2024 11:23

Well, that's petty, isn't it? I wonder if they can sue for breach of contract and lost earnings?

nauticant · 03/06/2024 11:09

A curious detail from Nick Wallis:

https://bleedingcool.com/comics/post-office-scandal-show-cancelled-by-paula-vennels-related-sponsor/

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nauticant · 03/06/2024 11:03

However, he might be able to shed some light on the departure of Jane MacLeod who fled the scene shortly before Foat's appointment.

Some background for eye-rolling purposes:

You have to lead from the top. This is a topic I’ve spoken about across the entire organisation. At our diversity and inclusion launch day, I spoke about my own story and how to inspire others to be their true selves. Setting up the LGBT+ and diversity and inclusion networks are probably among my proudest initiatives.

https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/in-house/interview-ben-foat-in-house-solicitor-of-the-year

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nauticant · 03/06/2024 10:59

Don't expect fireworks with today's witness, but you never know:

General Counsel, Ben Foat, was appointed in May 2019

Foat was hauled into the Inquiry in double-quick time when the racial coding document came to light:

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/post-office-gc-says-sorry-for-failure-to-disclose-racist-codes/5116537.article

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DanielGault · 03/06/2024 10:48

PerkingFaintly · 03/06/2024 10:45

Resumes today at noon: Ben Foat - Group General Counsel of Post Office Ltd
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

Alice Perkins on Weds and Thurs this week.

Thank you! It's a bank holiday here today so I would have likely forgotten.

PerkingFaintly · 03/06/2024 10:45

Resumes today at noon: Ben Foat - Group General Counsel of Post Office Ltd
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

Alice Perkins on Weds and Thurs this week.

Before you continue to YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgijUpaux8X4Nvjx3TmrHhg

minou123 · 01/06/2024 10:25

Thank you @prh47bridge , that makes total sense.

I knew punitive damages was more of a USA thing - (I watch far too much American Court Cases!), but it is interesting there is a potential for that for SPMR.

Peregrina · 01/06/2024 08:45

....... Compensation should certainly put the subpostmasters back in the position they would have been but for the way Post Office treated them. That is supposed to be the intention of the schemes. However, the usual "we are protecting public money" mindset seems to be in operation,.....

But at least if Vennells and Co were forced to pay back their bonuses, that would go some way to alleviate the losses. When you think that a SPM might get £25,000 - £30,000 p.a. and Vennells was paid something like £5.5 million (even if that was over the whole period of her CEOship)... well words fail me at this point. These stupid salaries are paid supposedly to get the best people - not ones who pass the buck at the first opportunity, and as a result of their actions have ended up with a public enquiry which must be costing a lot of money.

prh47bridge · 01/06/2024 08:39

@minou123 Those affected can claim for loss of earnings, reputational damage, mental impact and legal costs in addition to the return of any money they have wrongfully been forced to pay Post Office (with interest). Punitive damages are intended to punish the other side and deter them (and others) from similar conduct in future. Punitive damages are fairly common in the USA, much less so in the UK. However, some subpostmasters may have a case for punitive damages.

minou123 · 01/06/2024 08:27

@nauticant
Not only that, but there are other victims:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68543963

Oh yes, the children of the SPMR, 100%

I watched an interview with Seema Misra's eldest son. He was 10 when his mum was sent to prison and she gave birth to his brother when she was there.
He explained, he didn't understand what was going on, so he blamed and hated his mum.
It was only when he was 18 that he understood what happened.

Matin Griffiths children, they lost their dad, because of the Post Office.

Katie Downey

Post Office scandal victims' children seek compensation

Katie Downey and other postmasters' children want redress for the impact the scandal had on their lives.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68543963

nauticant · 01/06/2024 08:04

But surely he [Castleton] he should also be compensated for the stress, mental health harm and the long lasting impact of bankruptcy had on him? I'm sure it is difficult to put a monetary value on this, but surely there should be an element of punitive compensation?

Not only that, but there are other victims:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68543963

Someone (I can't remember who) said that one major problem with the compensation scheme amounts is that they need another zero on the end. The Post Office, ie the government, are still trying to do this on the cheap, hoping that the subpostmasters will eventually give up if offered a slightly improved, but derisory, amount.

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nauticant · 01/06/2024 07:56

I believe Bates has now been offered one third of his claim. Compensation should certainly put the subpostmasters back in the position they would have been but for the way Post Office treated them. That is supposed to be the intention of the schemes. However, the usual "we are protecting public money" mindset seems to be in operation, as a result of which the people operating these schemes are disputing claims and trying to find ways of reducing them even though they have been very carefully calculated by forensic accountants.

As I understand it, Bates has been in little to no paid employment since being dismissed by the Post Office (in 2003!) because he's spent just about all of his time on his stunningly successful campaign against them, and part of his claim is to reflect two decades of no income. That is a major sticking point in redress.

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SinnerBoy · 01/06/2024 02:32

minou123

Even more horrifically, one or two of the Post Office lawyers who were involved in the scandal and convicting SPMR, still.workfor the Post Office. You want to know what they are currently doing? Well, they are working on the compensation schemes!

Good grief! That absolutely beggars belief, I cannot think of a clearer conflict of interest.

RawBloomers · 01/06/2024 01:46

Quirkyme · 31/05/2024 22:02

So what's the deal?

Where has he been? What's he doing? Where is he?!!!!! What's he playing at

You can see exactly what he’s been doing because he’s documented it all on LinkedIn!

I don’t know what the enquiry have been playing at if they thought he couldn’t be found. Does make you wonder, despite the current testimonies, how good a job they are capable of.

minou123 · 01/06/2024 01:31

I'm so pleased you replied @prh47bridge, as I know you have a legal background from other threads.

Thanks for clarifying.
Its absolutely disgusting how the operators of the compensation schemes are disputing the SPMR claims and not offering what the SPMR are asking for.
Essentially, they are accusing the SPMR of dishonesty, I.e trying to claim more compensation than they deserve/entitled to.
This mindset is exactly what got them Post Office into trouble in the first place.

Compensation should certainly put the subpostmasters back in the position they would have been but for the way Post Office treated them
This is how i viewed the compensation schemes, but I also thought the SPMR could also claim for punitive damages, even I they were not criminally convicted?

Punitive damages may not be the correct term, but compensation for stress, distress, long lasting damaging effects, mental health etc.

For example Lee Castleton was not criminally convicted, but the Post Offuce sued him, which forced him into bankruptcy.
Now, obviously he should get all the out of pocket money back, such as solicitors fees, money he paid for supposed losses etc.
But surely he he should also be compensated for the stress, mental health harm and the long lasting impact of bankruptcy had on him? I'm sure it is difficult to put a monetary value on this, but surely there should be an element of punitive compensation?

Do you know if the compensation scheme includes this?
I might do some googling 😁