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AIBU?

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Manipulated by women that “can’t”

317 replies

Mistressofpemberly · 22/05/2024 13:42

Professional in my fifties with friends and colleagues of same age.
I’m increasing noticing that I’m expected to fill the gap at work and in friendships by women of my age who have fixed ideas about what they can and can’t do. They are all high flying professionals in responsible roles. They are all single.

The feeling that I’m being imposed on has been creeping up on me. I have had a bit of a light bulb moment and recognised that their behaviour is manipulative and I feel that I am being controlled.
AIBU in this? Is it a ‘thing’. Anyone else seeing the same? Examples following….

OP posts:
Againname · 22/05/2024 14:36

Your examples sound like you're a PA or similar job role and these people you're talking about are senior management?

I've worked as a PA in the past and all those tasks were part of the job.

My experience was it tended to be men, but that's because the more senior positions tended to be men where I worked although there were a few women too.

Sometimes it was a case of senior job role person wanting things done for them just the sake of asserting their seniority in the workplace, other times it was simply they were in very demanding roles and that's why they delegated to their employees. It was part of the job of PA.

The perfume thing. A male manager had an allergy so all staff members were asked not to wear perfume in the office.

Separately, if it's friends rather than workplace, perhaps instead of complaining about people you supposedly care about on MN, either just say no if you feel it's something you don't want to do for them, or have some empathy and awareness that you won't know everything going on in their lives.

Everyone (male or female, all ages) lacks confidence in some things, but also being single doesn't mean they don't have things going on in their home lives. Caring for elderly parents or health issues or whatever.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/05/2024 14:35

Finding driving harder at night as you get older is a real thing, applied to both sexes. Tbh I think it's a form of ageism to not recognise genuine issues related to getting older.

But 'can’t Find their way from a to b even if it is only a 5 minute walk' ..fgs can't you tell them to try using google maps or similar in walking mode?

Confortableorwhat · 22/05/2024 14:35

In my 50s I feel like I'm properly independent for the first time in my life and would get on an do all those things in my personal life.

In my professional life I've also got much better at asking people who work for me to do their job and make mine easier! If my assistant can save me some time or make things run more smoothly for me, I'll ask them for what I need, whereas once I'd have wanted to look so capable I did it all myself.

IncompleteSenten · 22/05/2024 14:35

People who say they can't when they mean font want to are infuriating.

TinkerTiger · 22/05/2024 14:33

I don't know about manipulation but my example is asking a client (woman in her 40s who has a professional job) to print something that's necessary for them to aid in the work I do with them (in their home) to be told 'I don't know how to use the printer, I have to wait for my husband'. Wilfully ditzy.

BlusteryLake · 22/05/2024 14:32

It sounds like a mixture of things going on. In general, people become more safety conscious, more risk averse and less tolerant of people's anti social habits as they get older. They are also better able to assert their own preferences. So it's natural that they will no longer be willing to do things they feel unsafe with, for example. It would be better, though, if your colleagues also took the next step, which is "I won't be able to attend unfortunately because I'm not comfortable driving in the dark" etc instead of the whole "can't" malarkey.

Anonymouseposter · 22/05/2024 14:31

I do understand that it’s annoying when someone says they can’t do something so someone else will have to.
As I’ve got older I have become so nervous about motorway driving that I could be dangerous so I don’t do it. I do get to places under my own steam via train and taxis though and avoid inconveniencing people.
I would suggest OP that you don’t jump into helping and just assume they will either find a way or miss out.
I do know someone who has an allergic reaction to being near perfume. I think it’s best to assume people are genuine rather than manipulative but you’re under no responsibility to solve their problems.

MagnetCarHair · 22/05/2024 14:28

Perfume on an airplane is bloody awful.

Is it your job to act to make their lives easier or are these jobs cropping up outside your role?

Chanelbasketballandchain · 22/05/2024 14:27

ByCupidStunt · 22/05/2024 13:43

I'm not sure exactly what they are saying they can't do but I can't stand women who say they can't drive on the motorway, or at night.

What is it they can't do?

Too bad...
I can't see a bloody thing at night, I tried different pair of glasses, it's not helping. I get blinded even when I am not the driver, but then it matters less.

I can't stand people who drive when they really shouldn't, so each to their own.

5128gap · 22/05/2024 14:25

No. I'm a woman in my mid 50s and I don't recognise myself or any of my friends in your examples. All entirely capable and willing to do all these things and more unaided, and wouldn't dream of 'manipulating' someone into helping.
It would be ridiculous to try. Having lived more than half a century its blatantly obvious the majority of us will have wisdom, skills and experience to spare, so be more than able for these every day tasks.
I'm sure you'll get people agreeing though, because it can be pretty much open season on middle aged women, and no doubt the usual agist/sexist types will be crawling from the woodwork to add anecdotes to support you.

Heronwatcher · 22/05/2024 14:24

Sorry I think I might need a bit more context. Are these things part of your job? If not then surely the answer is just not to get involved, like “I can’t find my way from A to B,” “oh that’s odd” or just say nothing,“oh her perfume’s a bit strong”, “is it, I hadn’t noticed, maybe you could find someone to open a window [CHANGE SUBJECT OR WALK OFFF]. It’s fine for these people to have boundaries but it’s also fine for you to have them too.

I think unless this is a specific part of your role just politely decline to help.

By the way this is not just women- it’s men too- I know many intelligent, professional men in their 50s who would probably cease to function and starve to death if their wives and PAs left simultaneously.

WallaceinAnderland · 22/05/2024 14:24

It's not that they can't, it's that they don't want to. There's a difference and if you learn to do it too you won't find yourself stepping into 'the gap' as you call it.

I don't find this with women I know or work with because I don't let their choices dictate my life.

For example

  • can’t Find their way from a to b even if it is only a 5 minute walk - meaning that I’m am expected to find them and take them there like a carer

In this instance you need to use your words and say, 'I'm not doing it because I don't want to'. Once you've done it a few times you will find it easy and not be such a pushover.

Mothership4two · 22/05/2024 14:23

apostrophewoman · 22/05/2024 13:48

Not meaning to sound like one of those women, but I'm 53 and I find driving at night to be more difficult as I get older; it doesn't stop me doing it but it is noticeably more difficult, I suppose as your eyes deteriorate.
Driving on motorways is no problem :)

Same. I'm late 50s. Night driving has definitely become more difficult in the past few years. Mum also gave up driving at night in her 50s. I will do short journeys if it's essential. No problem with motorways, but my son, who is in his 20s, hates motorway driving and will try to find alternative routes.

Confortableorwhat · 22/05/2024 14:23

Mistressofpemberly · 22/05/2024 13:51

eg.

  • can’t make their own way to airport for a weekend away
  • cant drive their car to meet up outside of a specified area
  • can’t Find their way from a to b even if it is only a 5 minute walk - meaning that I’m am expected to find them and take them there like a carer
  • can’t get off of bed to get into work before 10.30 / 11 because they ‘don’t work that way’
  • has to rearrange seating plans / travel plans as someone’s perfume is strong

just to reiterate these are professional women who are very well travelled and also hold down demanding jobs (albeit it seems on their own terms).

Are you a PA and it's your job to make their lives smoother? I can't imagine professional people behaving like this in any other context.

prou · 22/05/2024 14:20

I recognise this. And as a previous posted said it's definitely them prioritising something else. I would take it as a sign OP that they don't want to participate in the activity/thing you have suggested rather than not being able to. As I've gotten older I much enjoy time with those who I really value. Would I drive in the dark for a friend who im not close to? No. Would I drive in the dark to see my best friend or daughter? Yes. Ps I hate driving in the dark and find it difficult.

Jellycatspyjamas · 22/05/2024 14:20

Whereas I'd go and think, 'Oh hell, I don't really like blue cheese that much but I am going to get this down, just maybe not eat any seconds and have plenty of bread to mute the taste. And actually maybe this will be a really good type of blue cheese.

Whereas I’d go “I don’t like blue cheese, I’ll just have the bread and not moan that other people haven’t accommodated my preferences”.

LoobyDop · 22/05/2024 14:19

I think there is an increasing tendency for people to reframe “I don’t want to” as “I have a special unarguable reason why I can’t”. It’s quite often bullshit, but it excuses people pleasers from the unpleasantness of saying no, and makes it difficult for others to challenge. It’s part of the general cultural shift towards everyone being special and different, whereas in fact, everyone is different, but very few people are special. I’ve made my peace with the fact that I am deeply ordinary, and that is perfectly ok and normal.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/05/2024 14:18

I'm 63 and can do the things on the OPs list. But there are a few things which are now outside my comfort zone, so if I don't have to do them I won't.

For instance, I used to love exams. Excellent A levels, a First ... but a couple of years ago doing a refresher C++ course there was an online exam and I found - to my surprise - that the idea filled me with paralysing horror. So, as it wasn't a qualification I needed or which made any difference whatever to my job, I didn't do it.

Another example is that despite having lived for a couple of years in the US and driven on business trips thereafter, I don't think I'd feel confident to hire a car at an airport and drive anywhere nowadays.

So... not sure about the people the OP knows. Probably a mix of factors.

RampantIvy · 22/05/2024 14:18

I have never known someone in real life who was so allergic to perfume they couldn’t stand next to them

@Stripeysocks1981 perfume used to set off my mum's asthma. She had COPD, so an asthma attack was a big deal.

eurochick · 22/05/2024 14:17

I don't recognise this.

I've never made a fuss about it in a work situation but now I'm in peri the hormonal migranes I thought I had left behind at puberty are back and when I have one perfume makes my head bang and I feel very nauseous. I tend to just remove myself from the situation without a fuss though.

Jhgdsd · 22/05/2024 14:16

I think it is your peers. That list would neither be normal nor tolerated by many.
Tell them crack on. Firm up YOUR boundaries as to what you are prepared to do. It is fine to say to someone who demands you put yourself out for them, when suggesting you do something together that "its ok, better give it a miss if its too difficult for you". No one can force you into carer mode, screw it.
Be massively less available and less accommodating.

YellowPolkaDotBikini1980 · 22/05/2024 14:14

*brunch

MILTOBE · 22/05/2024 14:14

I'm really surprised these things are being said by single women in their 50s. I've only ever noticed this from middle-aged women who are married, where there's a strong demarcation of roles. So many of them won't drive on the motorway, won't go anywhere on their own, etc.

As for not getting up until 11 - how much patience are you expected to have with these women?

YellowPolkaDotBikini1980 · 22/05/2024 14:14

OP: Branch is at 10.30.
"I can't get up that early."
OP: oh ok, we'll meet another time. I'll tell Sharon you send your regards.

gnatschuffs · 22/05/2024 14:13

AnnaSewell · 22/05/2024 14:03

I wonder if people have become more confident in the wrong sort of way.

Happy to assert their own weakness as if it is a part of their identity and it makes them special

A lot of people will say, 'Oh I don't eat blue cheese.' (Random example) And they'd expect that to be accommodated. Or they'd come an moan about how they went to somebody's house and they were made to eat this disgusting blue cheese thing or their host didn't offer them an alternative.

And everybody would sympathise and say how terrible the host was.

Whereas I'd go and think, 'Oh hell, I don't really like blue cheese that much but I am going to get this down, just maybe not eat any seconds and have plenty of bread to mute the taste. And actually maybe this will be a really good type of blue cheese.

If I didn't want to drive somewhere that was unusually tricky, I might take a bus or walk or even get a taxi.

But I'd feel a responsibility not to wimp out if it was good friends.

And I also feel pleased with myself when I've managed to overcome my own reluctance.

I would vomit if someone fed me blue cheese (or any cheese) tbh even typing it is making me feel ill

Perfume and the like - also those disgusting comfort or lenor fake scent things make my lips tingle face go numb and induce a crippling migraine. They are the exact opposite of 'fresh' despite advertising claims Envy

I wouldn't put up with either of them, I'm an autistic though and now in chemically induced menopause and give no fucks about other peoples 'feels'