To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

People expect better of nursery because they think that more adults means more accountability, so why has no-one else been charged?

I’ve never come across a decent childminder.

My experience when my dc were little was cm’s who went to toddler groups where the older mindees were pretty much supervised by the other parents while they left the younger babies were left strapped into their buggies while the cm’s chatted amongst themselves.
One who left a baby in the car out of sight while she dropped the other one at preschool.

Standing in the park slagging off the children they mind as well as the parents.

I’m sure there are decent childminders out there, but IME they’re in the minority.

Yes but we all know that isn't your motive @Porpoising , This thread isn't even about childminders but people can't help themselves,. so you carry on with your agenda and I'll wish you a good night.

Why do we ‘have’ to do that, @NuffSaidSam ?

I don’t think we ‘have’ to do anything except choose the childcare that fits most comfortably with us.

In the majority of cases, separation is harder for the mother than the child.

More babies die by the hand of their parents than nursery workers. And even more so by the hand of a step parent.
babies die in cars, accidents, on days out, in their sleep and many other ways.
luckliy, there events are all very rare and shocking.
nursey, statistically, is probably safer than many other situations that babies end up in.

Of course, nursery is fine.

But what's better is one-on-one or small group care where individual needs can be met, out in the world. Obviously, lots of people don't have a choice and that's not their fault. They're doing what they need to for their family. We all understand that.

But what we have to stop doing is pretending that nursery is good for babies or that they need it or that a baby being 'clingy' to their main caregiver is a problem to save the feelings of working parents. It's an incredibly difficult line to walk.

I agree with you.

One thing I like about nurseries are the rooms which are based on their age and needs. DS is in the toddler room now and their naps are based on toddlers, not trying to do the school run or entertain a preschooler at soft play.

There’s pros and cons to both settings. The sleep situation at nursery is a big pro for me.

Or - I know - respect the posters decision to go with a different childcare setting?

@BusyCM , but it isn’t, is it?

Most childminders - I realise not all, but most - do school runs. And don’t we keep hearing the wonderful thing about them is that they go out: to groups and to parks and so on, which is great but not necessarily for babies on two naps a day.

It might work fine if you have a baby that just nods off anywhere, and DD used to but now has FOMO. Or are you telling me you’re actually in all the time, as that isn’t what you claimed earlier.

But TBH the ‘bit odd’ comment is the problem summed up. There is nothing wrong with saying ‘a childminder isn’t for us at this time.’ To say this makes me a ‘bit odd’ is dismissive and doesn’t really reassure. I think it’s perfectly valid that given my DD has two days in the week where she doesn’t nap well given her brother’s routine, I prioritise her having her own quiet space for the remaining three. It’s absolutely fine to say ‘yes that’s understandable’ and leave it at that

So choose one who doesn't do them? Plenty around

Or pureed the food available like they'd promised the parent they would?

OK that's a specific ossie with your cms routine and your baby. It's a but odd to discount a whole type of childcare due to that. You wouldn't discount all nurseries because you didn't like one nurseries routine, would you? There's plenty of cms who don't do school runs (like me) or whatever else is the issue.

Thats what I'm trying to say, I hate this blanket nurseries =good, childminders =bad.

I used to go to a playgroup with my youngest child and there were a group of childminders who’d be there most weeks. They used to sit there the whole time drinking coffee and chatting and completely ignoring the children they were meant to be looking after!

but these childminders are out & about in the local community, they’re in full view of other people - people not remotely connected to them.
that’s a positive for me.
and maybe the children are happily playing? that’s what a playgroup is for isn’t it?

My little DD definitely tags along to a certain extent. I don’t think she minds and in fact somewhat enjoys the chaos of soft play, role play centres, library rhyme times and toddler groups. She’s accessing them on her terms now but for a while she was a bemused observer!

It was based around what the older one would enjoy though. I don’t think that it’s wrong to point that out.

I don’t feel guilty about either of my children going to nursery. There are tangible benefits ghat reach further than the immediate bonding process. Poverty is by far the biggest cause of misery, irrespective of horrific tragedies such as this. Without two parents working, many more children would grow up in poverty.

School and playgroup runs usually

@BusyCM it isn’t necessarily a criticism but that can be problematic for babies needing multiple naps a day.

That was the main drawback to our childminder. The day was structured around preschool children who had one nap in the middle of the day whereas DD is on two: morning and afternoon with roughly three hour wake windows. So if she wakes at 6am she would want a nap at 9am - in time for the school run, then fall asleep on the way back and be disturbed when they all went to their morning activity, then be woken again to do the school run in the afternoon.

It’s exactly the same when she’s home with me as she has a nearly four year old brother, but that’s why it’s nice for her days in childcare to be a proper rest. There’s nothing wrong at all with saying ‘actually this is not for me at this time.’ It doesn’t mean you or my CM was doing anything ‘wrong’, just that what was needed wasn’t quite what was there.

Of course not all nurseries are unsafe due to 2 incredibly rare tragedies in the news.

Are all nurseries great? No of course not but the same could be said about childminders, nannies and SAHM’s.

but it’s not pre planned. The pre planned element is the different.

They probably don’t need it but I personally think my 12 month old gets a lot out of going to preschool twice a week. In the few weeks of going, she’s now happily going to her key worker and other staff members, gets to do fun stuff that we don’t do at home (messy play etc) and gets to play alongside other babies her own age. She was an extremely clingy baby to me and I worried dreadfully about putting her in but she seems to be thriving there.

I am aware but when the child is obviously suffocating and you don't help them then that seems intentional.

There’s a sliding scale of what’s good for infants.

im sure more serious harm happens at home, due to lack of accountability vs childcare settings .

but day to day children are just generally better off with their primary caregiver. It’s not bashing working parents to say this - people have to do whatever is right for them but it Is silly to lie/be in denial about it

also to a Pp - murder is intentional, manslaughter is not

What do you mean 'tagging along" with what the older children are doing? Farm trips? Park? Playgroups? The garden? The playroom?

Yes we have older toddlers and preschoolers too but all activities suit all surely? They just access them differently but I don't understand the tagging along bit?

You say the same for driving in cars though, yet everyone continues to do it.