To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

You are not the person who gets to make that judgement

Having been a baby room practitioner and a childminder, I can definitely say that caring for one baby, plus 2 or 3 under 5s, plus several school children as a lone working childminder is infinitely easier, less stressful and involved less baby distress than caring for 15 babies as part of a team of 5 (ideally/on paper but usually 3 or 4 in practice!) nursery staff. I do think stress levels are probably too high for everyone in large baby rooms and we should definitely tackle that.
One of the issues in the case mentioned is that the ratio that day was 11 babies to two adults. Absolutely shouldn't be happening but it does. That's not a natural way to care for very young children, it's too stressful for adults and babies.

Well it was good for mine. Probably because it actually did have competent and caring staff.

I'm sure that poster isn't... but let's just say you aren't coming across all that well yourself, before you start casting aspersions on other posters...

What I took from the post was that the poster was generalising?!

(I don't friggin' remember when mine ate what - it's all lost in the mists of time!)

Of course, loads of families prefer nursery for all sorts of reasons. I'm absolutely not suggesting otherwise. But it's not 'good' for the babies. It's fine for the baby and it suits the broader family.

My first three went from ten months, and all loved it, went in happy, came out happy. I think threads like this are very harmful for nervous first time mothers

I did over the years have a couple of workers in the nursery say that they wouldn't send their own children to nursery when they had them. And guess what, when the time came they did!!!

Same as I had a midwife once say to me that she wouldn't line the consultant's pockets by paying for antenatal care that they would just spend on holidays. Guess who was sitting waiting for her appointment when I rocked up for one of my appointments...!!!

Yes, this isn't a good argument. "Tagging along" with what the older children are doing is exactly what happens day in, day out, in families up and down the land. It's not actually a naturally occuring state for young babies to be kept with only other the same age. They actually learn quite a bit by observing and interacting with older siblings and family friends.

There aren't enough hours in my day to do the life stuff that is actually relevant to my life now let alone read up on something that isn't.

I am more than capable of applying my own commonsense, intelligence and experience though.

Still BS. From my experience as a mother of three.

Except books on child development don’t all say the same things, and aren’t necessarily written by experts anyway. Many will be former nannies and have a vested interest if you like in telling parents that if they absolutely must work a single caregiver is best for their child. It probably is but it’s also unaffordable and impractical for many of us.

But anyone who thinks that having breakfast between 730 and 9 is institutionalising child isn’t someone I care to listen to TBH.

"Could you link to that research, or a summary of it?

As a FTM due to to back to work in 6 months I had decided on Nursery for my baby because my second hand knowledge of childminders is that a baby will basically end up tagging along with what the older children are doing"

@PoppingTomorrow the research is the entirety of John Bowlby's attachment theory. Mary Ainsworth did a lot on this too. Richard Bowlby, Johns son, also did some interesting research on multiple indiscriminate care in day nurseries and the impact this has on children.

It's well documented that nursery is not the best for children under 2. But nobody likes to highlight this as it can't be helped in today's society. We can't all stay home.

And that's exactly what we chose. Small numbers in each room. Consistency of carers - my eldest got so attached to one that I had to wait until the lady started her shift to drop my child in the morning! When they needed to move rooms, they had familiarisation time before they moved. The carers from the previous room would pop in and see them. I never had a problem.

The owner was mostly on site - it was a small family business. You just knew the staff wouldn't step out of line! Not that I can imagine the majority ever wanted to. My sister's child in another nursery was lifted by the arms one day. Staff member dismissed on the spot. (Sister felt awful about it!)

Our nursery sadly closed not that long ago for economic reasons. I was amazed to discover how many of the staff were still there who had been there when my children were. If you find somewhere like that, trust me, you've struck gold!

Fair enough, it's a very interesting subject even if you don't have little kids anymore.

Obviously fully entitled to call BS on anything you want. It means less directly followed by an admission that you've no interest in reading the facts though 😂

I completely agree OP but guilt at choosing or having to work makes women tell themselves that nurseries are great for socialising babies who really just want one or two primary caregivers until 2. So most people will post angry patronising responses because they need to sleep at night.

Obviously both terribly sad. But I don't understand why the 9 months old needed pureed food. If you start weaning your baby at 6 months they can eat finger food at that point. I never pureed food for my babies. I obviously cut things like grapes but other things they just ate whole.

Oh yes, the nurseries I worked in were awful.

The parents didn't know that though.

Just like in this case.

I feel that staying home with a well rounded mentally well parent is preferable to childcare before 3. Alas I was not mentally well and we needed me working full time to pay the mortgage.

For me, a nursery was safer - more eyes - but obviously different from a childminder setting. But, especially for the under 3s, schedules were loose. Naps were when they're tired, lunch time would be moved as each child requires around naps - not by the clock. Back up dinners were offered for fussy eaters or individual tastes. My daughter is 2, and while her big brother was at school today, she went to the park and the library, while me and her dad worked. She did painting, played in the garden, and counted butterflies.

Even the best nursery is not perfect, but sadly this is the world we live in now, to keep a roof over our heads...

Some are.

Many, many are not.

And this is no fault of the staff btw, I'm not having a go at them. I don't doubt most are doing their absolute best in difficult circumstances.

I am hardly going to read up on child development now that my kids are in their fucking 20s, and I still call BS.

The biggest indicator of quality in a nursery is the adult - child relationships.
Much more important than whether the toys are wooden or plastic, if there is a set or rolling snack time, separate sleep room or free flow garden access.

The two things I would look for in a nursery for under 2s is small group size - max 9 babies but ideally 6 - and babies staying in the same room, with the same adults for as long as possible.

Frequent changes of room/carers (non-mobile then crawlers then walkers) and big groups ( 12 or 15 babies with 4 or 5 adults) are things I would avoid.

Big rooms with loads of babies, even with adults and floor space meeting minimum legal ratios, are hugely more stressful for both adults and children.
Being in a state of stress all day, dealing with lots of noise, is awful for the staffs' mental health so cannot be great for babies either.

How many do you 'permit' in a "small group" then?

I far preferred my children to have care appropriate to their age with other children of a similar age, than competing for care with children of a range of ages!

Sure, you can think what you want.

You can get a book on child development and find out it's all true. Or continue to believe it's all rubbish.

I don't really care either way.

Jesus Christ. Did you actually just blame that on nursery care????!!!

My children had no difficulties, no CAMHS etc.

I don't have anything to "admit" or feel "uncomfortable" about!

I think there is far too much variation in children and families needs to make, yet again, such a strong statement.

Many families would prefer a nursery setting for lots of reasons, many of which have been outlined here. I suspect they are in a much better position to understand what is 'best' for them than you are.