To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

I viewed a couple of nurseries that were horrendous, rooms full of small babies that didn’t look like they were getting anything like the amount of care they should be.

DD goes to a small private nursery that doesn’t take any child before 2 as the owner, who was previously a childminder, doesn’t agree with putting young babies in a group setting. I would agree that I wouldn’t send mine below 2 unless there were no other choices as I feel like babies need a different type of environment. I would prefer to use a childminder if I wasn’t able to work around childcare.

My DD loves nursery and goes 15 hours a week but by the time you get a few months into school the children who went and who didn’t all blend into one, so I think the socialisation aspect is a load of rubbish personally.

Do nurseries offer a live camera feed for parents to log into?

i do think nursery isn’t the best place for under 2s, that said I’m sure there are some lovely ones. However I do think there’s huge pressure to ‘push’ development and ‘achieve’ when all they should do is care for babies that young. So much pressure on non blended food and self feeding etc could be to blame for the choking, giving him lumps too soon, along with feeding too many babies over ratio. The smothering just made me feel sick, that woman was evil. To just ignore a screaming baby like that and not check on them for 97 MINUTES! Absolutely dispicable!

I will get flamed for stating this.

With DD I almost chose to continue with my career. I could see nursery wasn’t working and she was very unsettled - almost ‘wired’. I stopped nursery, quit my job and spent a year with her. Her behaviour/unsettled-ness dramatically improved. She started school, then I got asked back to work - involved breakfast/after school clubs. She deteriorated again.

I then changed my hours so I could be there for drop off pick up.
I then had DS.
No nursery, preschool at age 3. I didn’t go back to work. He’s always been happy/well settled. I’m now back at work but only doing hours which mean I’m always there for drop off/pick up and holidays.
I don’t have the best house, car, holidays - we have to be very careful with money. I could have done much better in my career. But I’ve had the time to spend with them and I think they are better for it.

You work in a safe and lovely nursery and yet your dd goes to a CM. Why? It can’t be that great or you would choose the same for your child.

Absolutely awful cases but they are reported because of how horrific and rare they are.

We stick to 1:3 ratio, sometimes it is higher. Our baby room staff have been there many years so have cared for siblings and know our parents very well. They are all first aid trained, level 3 trained and have specialist baby care training. All our rooms are visible from other rooms and staff will always help out another room if needed. The majority of nurseries are safe.

I don't know how babies can develop strong attachments in a nursery setting & it worries me that kids in the future won't know how to bond and/or develop secure relationships with others.

It was the government that was tasked with pushing the 'idea' that nurseries are good for children from way back mainly because they wanted more people going to work.

My children loved/love nursery. I know they are safe and judging all nurseries based on two accidents is a bit simplistic (and daft). Would you say crossing the street is unsafe just because someone got run over while doing so somewhere, at some point?

I’ve logged on this morning and seen the answer to my question was yes - glad the tragic death of a much-loved daughter provided such a great opportunity for some of you to get out your cloths to polish your “Best Mum” trophies.

https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

I think some will benefit from reading this article.

I work in a nursery in the baby room. We are safe. We do all risk assessments we meet their needs and we don’t put them in danger. That being said I have a 2 year old and she will stay at her childminders until she is school age because I don’t like the nursery routine but it has 0 to do with safety.

I also had concerns with one of our childminders. We could see she was on fb all day not watching the kids, we saw she used second hand free car seats, her cat also badly scratched my son’s face. Let alone all the holding back in his development etc (eg tv on all day). It’s a really tough decision for parents. After our experience, we would never go for a childminder again and are confident in sending DC2 to nursery. We’ve been very pleased with them.

I’m old enough to see the outcomes and my DDs and their peers are now in their mid to late 20s. They were lucky enough to have a very high staff ratio in an LEA nursery (now closed down due to cuts).

No a good nursery will not emotionally or intellectually stunt children. Personally I trusted them more than a childminder. None of the staff were teens and all were qualified. There were stimulating and interesting things to do and there was a fabulous garden.

My children and the ones I still know they are all kind well rounded people. Many with long term partners. One is a GP, one a vet, a nurse, a scientist, an artist and the others have jobs in marketing/comms/media execs in London.

@Luxell934

I think there are good nurseries and bad nurseries. I work in one (we don’t have very young) - but I wouldn’t send my child there. And I regret sending my DD when she was 10 months old (different nursery).
The nursery I work in is very highly regarded, and did very well in a recent inspection - where staff ratios were suddenly upped and lots of lovely activities set out.
On a day to day, I regularly see dangerous behaviour, broken resources, unsatisfactory ratios, food not cut up. The one time I reported safety issues, I got shouted at. I don’t want to lose my job.

That’s why I said “generally”.

I would love to spend all day with my children but I need to work. They love nursery. There are multiple staff members there each day so if one was doing harm then it would get noticed in a way it wouldn’t at a childminder (but I imagine most childminders are lovely).
don’t imply that I don’t care about the safety of my children by putting them in nursery.

Utter bollocks in many cases. My son was really held back by childminders, and really thrived at nursery. He was ready way before 3. Nothing ‘poor babies’ about it if you have a good nursery.

Absolutely, I hate the socialisation myth. The amount of times I've heard that said shows how clueless many are about child development.

Well from what I've read, babies don't get anything positive from nursery until they're 3 and even then, not all day, 5 days a week.
It's capitalism that has promoted it as a good idea. Think how much money is being made from it. Poor babies.

I completely agree.

I agree that nurseries are not the best environment for babies or young toddlers. My 2 went from 18 months 2 days a week because I had to work, but I never felt at ease with it. They wouldn’t have gone until preschool age if I’d had the choice. It’s not possible to provide adequate care imo when 1 person is responsible for multiple babies. Is it unsafe? No, I think the majority are safe in terms of keeping them safe from physical harm. Do they provide the best care? No, I don’t think they do .

.

It is the same for childminders, nannies, care home assistants and dog walkers. I wouldn’t allow anyone who is vulnerable (nonverbal child, animal, or elderly) to be looked after by people who need no qualifications and paid minimum wage.

people aren’t in the jobs for the love of it, they are in it to get paid. Some will be good nice people, others won’t be. I wouldn’t take the risk.

the answer is to require more qualifications for these jobs and then in turn to pay more.

But paying people a pittance to care for our most vulnerable is the root to these problems,

I think the tragic case of Genevieve does raise questions about what Ofsted could be doing to raise standards and inspect more. On the day she died, there were just two staff looking after 11 babies. The day before, two staff were looking after 16 babies!! https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/20/nursery-death-of-baby-genevieve-meehan-raises-troubling-questions

If there were more inspections - and more ad-hoc, unannounced inspections - would nursery owners be less likely to push boundaries on ratios like this? The government will say there is no money to do this. But how many millions are they spending on sending a handful of people to Rwanda? Once again our children are not the priority.

How many of us could provide good or even safe care to eight babies each, ten hours a day, with presumably no break?

You will get a pile on op for daring to start a thread like this, because too many of us are forced to work and some of us shouldn’t have had dc in the first place if we find dc ‘boring’ - of course babies are not safe in nurseries, nor any young child. They are busy, frantic places full of underpaid, mostly undervalued staff with a very high turnover. If we are aiming to offer our babies secure attachments in safe environments we should be doing much more as a society to support keeping a parent at home for longer.