To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

2 cases of death but unless you work in a nursery you have no idea if the near misses on dangerous stuff and how the culture if hidding mistakes is . I would never leave my young child in a nursery after working in one . One of the supposed amazing ones too

@Polishedshoesalways

i used to work in a nursery 10 years ago and the manager was horrendous she was vile and she abused her staff and eventually got sacked once I walked out.

i also don’t like the nursery routine as a parent. They enforce the children outside at all weathers unless it’s torrential rain but if they are out in it they are kept until someone says it’s ok to come in. Baby’s don’t go out in the wet though. I don’t want that for my child. My childminder takes them the zoo, the park, childminding play groups, soft play, wildlife parks… etc etc so why would I send my child to a nursery to be stuck in the same place mon-fri when she gets more out of the childminding experience. It has nothing to do with the safety of a nursery just the routine and the opportunities. My two year old knows her colours she knows her numbers to 10 she is clever and I personally feel like my childminder along with myself is responsible for that. Childminding is more personal and that’s what I want.

I also wouldn’t send my child to the nursery I’m at to promote independence she has came here on two occasions and cried for me both times she knows I’m here and works with babies. Doesn’t bat an eyelid at the childminders ans never have.

I also knew my childminder for 15 odd years used to go out with her when younger etc. My niece who’s 13 went to her when she was 1-4 so it was always going to be that or I’d be a stay at home mum.

its personal preference but I 10000% would choose a childminder over nursery however like I said had it probably not be this childminder I’d have sucked it up and been a stay at home mum. Also I’d love to home school my W year old when she reaches 4. I hate the system.

I had to do it during Covid and it was awful. I asked to go unpaid but wasn’t allowed and my work didn’t do furlough.

It was actively encouraged during Covid, my boss told me to get a playpen and crack on.

Post Covid many people continued and I know it became an issue between their workplaces and them as they were then told it wasn’t allowed. A colleague of mine lost her job over it.

Yes, I know that. I was responding to a comment worrying that kids in the future won't know how to bond or form secure relationships because they haven't been able to in nursery.

My son is 20 this year and attended nursery full time. He’s at university now, second year, he’s the president of his society and runs multiple sports teams. He’s got an internship at a top london company and graduate job pretty much lined up. All top grades at GCSE and A level. He’s such a good ‘kid’, so sociable and never caused me a days trouble. If that’s what institutionalised looks like I think society will be ok.

Yes I agree, I think it’s shocking that some people think it’s ok, I’ve seen people doing it with under 1’s. We tried to do something about it with a member of our staff and got told by HR we couldn’t as mum was bf’ing and there’s legislation. Bit of a cop out I felt but she was meeting her targets so not much we could do but sends out the wrong message that this is ok. It’s really not

Oh bless him! Did he mean they didn't cuddle him or not enough or not in the same way you did. That's really sad.

She wasn’t under a year. Most kids start some form of pre school etc at that age.

No one wants to say it but we also have to consider what our society will look like with so many institutionalised children soon to be adults.

My DD started nursery at 2.5. She developed a very close bond with the head of her class. If she was upset in the morning I could pass her over and she'd cuddle into her and be comforted. She also had bonds with a number of other staff and always was close with someone in her class.

This nursery had small ratios of children to staff - better than required in law so this may have been part of the reason. Each DC got some 1:1 time with a staff member every day.

Safe- generally yes.
Optimal- no.

I don’t think this should be a discussion we can’t have simply because it makes working mums feel guilty. If there are risks with nursery (to safety or development) we need to talk about them, otherwise how will things improve? I used nursery for DC1 and it was the right thing at the time but that doesn’t mean it was perfect.

If society wants two parents in the workplace, we should be subsidising childcare enough to make safe and age-appropriate care affordable. If we think a parent should be staying at home, we should be supporting that through the benefits system and a right to return to work after a longer period (which works well in other countries). We seem to have the worst of all worlds- social expectations and economic reality mean two parents at work but we don’t have the childcare provision to make it doable.

That’s wrong, it doesn’t have to be pre-planned to be murder, it just needs to be intentional. For instance, if I stab someone in the chest in the heat of the moment that’s still murder because I intended to kill them by my actions. If I push someone and they fall, hit their head and die, that’s manslaughter because I didn’t intend to kill them by my actions.

You can of course have pre-meditated murder, but that’s not the defining factor, intent is, even if that’s intent in the moment.

In this very sad case it’s likely the prosecution felt they couldn’t prove the perpetrator intended to kill the poor baby.

My five year old runs for a cuddle from his nursery preschool key worker now when we go and collect his younger brother. I do see the staff cuddling the children etc.

IMO I think WFH with a small child is totally neglectful and far worse than childcare. You’re essentially trying to ignore your child all day.

Agree - I wonder why we haven’t heard more about the management etc. Everyone involved in the care and staffing at that nursery should be charged.

I didn’t put my kids into nursery until they could speak and verbally communicate with me. I always felt that they were physically safer there as everything is made for young kids. At home they would hurt themselves more than at nursery.

However, there emotional needs were not met there. I asked my son why he didn’t like going there. He said “because they can’t cuddle me like you do mummy”, it broke my heart

Probably not ideal for young babies but what choice do some parents have? Working from home with a young baby? That’s probably more neglectful and risky. My two went to nursery, from 12 months and 9 months and it was a lovely nursery. Many parents are still friends with the nursery workers 20yrs on, in fact I saw 3 of them at a fellow nursery mums 50th recently, all still working there. I’m sure at times they were left to cry a bit, has it had a detrimental effect on them? No, both barely remember being there, so glad I didn’t give up my career as they wouldn’t have remembered that either. These are isolated incidents, nurseries shouldn’t be letting babies sleep on bean bags, ours had proper coats and a sleeping area for the under 15 months, then they had a mat on the floor.

@pootlin the ones I’ve used haven’t.

@Runnerinthenight there were just two staff in the baby room looking after eleven babies that day. You can imagine the chaos, the other member of staff could well have been rushed off their feet doing feeds and nappy changes and tragically a silent child was overlooked. I think the nursery owners should be charged for allowing an illegal and dangerous situation to regularly happen, the article I read said they were often dealing with huge baby to staff ratios.

My eldest definitely wouldn’t have coped in more childcare. Both mine did/do 3 days. But I never leave them there until closing and get them around 5.

Anecdotally my own experience of friends etc is the ones who have children in FT childcare seem to struggle the most with parenting. I think their kids struggle to slow down at home, so they use screens a lot and then struggle with self regulation.

Most are probably safe but research shows babies benefit from 1:1 care until c 2 years so best avoided if you can.

So the baby was more or less tortured. Strapped face down to a bean bag so it couldn't breathe. And died. I hope they throw away the key.

You could obviously afford it but many can't so don't see the point of your post?

Are nursery workers not regulated in England? I’m pretty sure they are in Scotland.

I agree with this. We chose a nursery setting as there was a dedicated baby room. We didn't want our baby spending lots of time in the pram on the school run.