To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

Just in reply to your first post. My two smaller ones love the school run! They love trying to copy their older brother and watch what he’s doing.

I can’t see the problem with them ‘tagging along’ on school runs, being outside, learning to walk alongside sensibly and all that sort of thing. Better than being stuck in one room all day IMO.

I beg your pardon? No, I'm not 'thick' as you put it. I have SEN DC. There is nothing 'thick' about asking a question. If the baby had medical needs or development delay that affected them eating it would have been referenced in the article. If you don't realise that then perhaps you are the one who is 'thick.'

My "real family" only has one child in it. But thanks for that.

Like in a real family? Sounds good to me.

Absolutely this. Next we will be saying don't send your kids to school or on school trips, or allow them to go swimming and keep them with you until in their 20s at all times. It's not practical for everyone to be a stay at home parent and this keeps women down as it is indeed usually them! Also accidents can and do happen in the home with the parent present! If anything having more (hopefully well rested) staff around to spot any issues and a premises which should be risk assessed and specifically designed/set up for the purpose might be safer than being at home. For example kids kept away from kitchens which are separate in nurseries reduces some risk. You can never eliminate all risk and yes there have been some tragedies which is awful. Our kids are precious precious. But OP do you not get on a plane yourself or with your kids because there has been plane crashes before now? You have to put things in perspective.

Of course it does, but whether or not the kid goes to nursery is not the be all and all. Support as they get older is also key and is what the child remembers.

The stories in the recent news are rare. That’s why they are in the news. I don’t send my boy to nursery thinking be will be killed. Just like i didn’t think my babies would be murdered by a nurse when they were born. Saying nureries are unsafe is too much of a generalisation. I would also argue they are still safer than schools.

A lot of things happen at nursery due to not following their own policies and procedures
When my daughter was 2, she went to a nursery, she loved it and I was happy with it
One day I walked in a bit later than usual around 5.45 so 10-15 minutes till closing time
My daughter was the only child left in her class.
I walk in, just in time to see her pulling the bookcase on herself, so it fell but miraculously she managed to jump out of the way
The only nursery nurse there was in a storage room, so wasn't in the room when that happened but she heard the commotion and came running shouting no no no
And pretended she was there all along, she didn't realise I saw it all

Lots of things I guess
They had a rule, always 2 staff were supposed to be there
Also if the bookcase was that flimsy that a 2 year old could pull it down then clearly that's another issue.
Anyway, I realised that I needed to make sure that I was always ready to pick up by 5.30 cuz ssomehow many nursery nurses left by then and most children too
So the last 30 minutes there's not much care at all.
My daughter went to 3 different nurseries
This one was the best

Unfortunately the two families have lost their most precious ones at the hands of two individuals and saying that I still don't agree with nurseries being unsafe countrywide. Nurseries are safe yes but is it a loving environment, probably not or at least not at the extent a parent could provide and we all know that. It's a substandard place that provides standard care but it is equipped with the perfect tools to stimulate your baby. Whether you have a live in nanny, cm or send your lo to nursery its all the same unless you find a nanny that forms a lovely bond, or a great childminder or a nursery that is full of dedicated loving staff then it's pretty much standard everywhere around the world.

I have no recollection of life at home in the early years, as most people probably wouldn’t, as they are too young.

Early years experience does have a huge impact on children, though - whether or not they remember it.

Great article, thank you! This is exactly what I've always suspected based on gut instinct. Nursery from as young as possible doesn't necessarily benefit non-verbal babies or toddlers who would clearly prefer to remain in a parental presence. However every time you dare voice such an opinion you get bulldozed by the "bUt ThEy LeArN SoCiAl sKiLls!!" brigade of mums.

A child "appearing happy" in nursery doesn't mean anything either. The study clearly shows their cortisol levels rise throughout the day as children perceive time to be much longer than adults. Just like adults can force themselves through uncomfortable situations (flying, public speaking etc), most children learn to endure childcare environments.

We have a befriended career couple who put their daughter in full-time childcare (8+ hours a day, 5 days a week) from 10 months. Both didn't compromise anything with work and ensured the family had a huge level of material comfort. Their child was hugely independent from young age and hit all milestones early. However soon after starting school, she's developed panic disorder and needs psychiatric treatment aged 5. Knowing their family fairly well, she definitely didn't experience any ACEs in her life aside from the glaring fact that she was in near full-time care of strangers from an extremely early age. She also got ill a lot (invariably) but still made to attend nursery if it clashed with the parents' work schedules and there was simply no other option available.

It's sadly a fact that no nursery worker is going to love and care for your child the same as you do. They aren't going to stress about choking hazards the same way as you. Their world isn't going to end the same way as yours will if something happens.

Because most of the time it's fine, nothing happens and they can get away with not keeping babies 99% safe.

And some of them will be there because they couldn't find anything else/need the money.

Because dd was a rainbow baby after so many losses I understood this, and made sacrifices to make sure I was the one looking after her. Not saying that is particularly normal either, I was so stressed and anxious that it was hard to think clearly in the early years, and the fact is that most babies are fine at nursery.

I wonder if the claim that kids are angry at school take in school factors.

My mum was a SAHM in the early years but I was angry at primary school when she did nothing to help me when I was physically bullied.

??? Some absolutely do. My sister used to check in on her children on the camera at least once a day. As long as everyone is aware that there is a camera and that other parents can log on, it's not a GDPR breach.

I would have never left either of my two in a nursery, my late MIL was a wonderful woman and she looked after my two. I did only return to work one day a week though. I fully appreciate for many mums there is no other option.

The way the second baby was treated made me go cold. All 3 of mine have been through nursery. One I took from nursery and didn't return due to poor care.
But I had never thought, even fleetingly of babies being treated like that.

Each to their own. No way would i leave my kids with a CM until age 4 or 5. They don’t provide enough stimulation at that age and it’s highly likely your kid will be spending the day with babies instead of peers.

For those spouting that kids can’t form attachments if they are left in nursery blah blah

I strongly disagree. My mum was a SAHM until i went to school, though i did half a day at preschool.

I have no recollection of life at home in the early years, as most people probably wouldn’t, as they are too young. What had a greater effect on me is how my parents cared for me when I was older ie when I could actually form more memories. Which was shit. Just because someone doesn’t put their kid in childcare from age 1, doesn’t mean they will continue to be a super parent afterwards and won’t fuck up their kids by not supporting them in other ways.

My kids have been/will be in childcare from 11 months. But I am dead focused on how I can support them as they grow up. Including continuing to earn money and increase job security so I can provide for them without so much worry.

Oh ffs 🤦🏼‍♀️ they’re not institutionalised. Presumably you sent your kids to school? Are they institutionalised too?
Shockingly we may grow up with a generation of kids who have seen both parents work and know that as a woman you can do whatever you damn well want.

Having worked in nursery settings, I've never seen anything dangerous or neglectful myself.

However, I absolutely recognise all of those "throwaway" comments that were made ("stop being such a stress head", "she's such a diva", "stop your whingeing" etc). I know lots of absolutely lovely nursery staff, I know some who are well-meaning but tired and over-stretched, and I've met a small but significant minority who don't much like babies, and who don't provide a positive environment in which they can thrive.

OP, far more babies are killed in their own homes in horrific circumstances by their mothers and their abusive partners. Far more babies are killed in hospitals by Lucy Letby and other twisted nurses. Far more babies die because they have not been inoculated against common illnesses.

Nurseries are safe places. These cases are dreadful tragedies for their families and we all feel for them, but as others have said, there are hundreds of thousands of babies being cared for lovingly and safely in nurseries every day.

I worked in nursery's. I don't think it's the best place for babies in terms of emotional needs. However, when it comes to safety they are typically the safest places and much safer than being with wider family or friends. These are 2 sad but rare cases. All staff are first aid trained and the whole environment is set up to ensure children's safety. Doors are secure, no sharp objects, nothing that can cause burns, door hinges are covered. Millions of children go to nursery without having a serious accident, don't let these rare ones scare you off them.

Ignore the patronising and faux concerned posters who feel that a thread started after a baby died at a nursery is the best place to jump on their self righteous soap box about how all nurseries “aren’t best” for babies and they could never 😱 I’m sure your baby will be fine - and reading between the lines a lot of the posters adamantly against nursery had kids 20-30 years ago when times were vastly different.

The poor family of Genevieve who may some of the comments on here, completely tone deaf. The whole thing is heartbreaking

I suspect victimisation and cruelty happen in nurseries far more than we would like to think, just as they happen in care homes.

That is a fascinating article. I've sometimes wondered if I'd failed my DC in some way and that article reassures me that I was fortunate to have been in a position to go with my instincts.

No for gdpr reasons you would not be able to watch other people’s children. they should however have CCTV for they themselves to watch.