To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

But we aren’t cows, we’re humans. We do many, many things that other mammals don’t do.

I’m not distressed when DS is at nursery because I know where he is and I know that he’s well cared for.

I’d like to know how many of the people criticising others for using nurseries spend their “mothering” days whacking ms rachel on and sticking their babies in a bouncer…

Farm animals, pigs especially are notoriously bad mothers. They often sit on their young and even eat them.

These are within sight and smell of their mother and can join her.

A mother Cow separated from her calf is a distressing sound.

I'm curious to know in what way you think babies benefit from nursery. Inspite of my points below this is not a rhetoric question. I can't think of any benefits that are purely for the baby or do you mean a happier homelike because it might make the parents' life easier? This is a very valid point of course but I was wondering if you are thinking of anything once we take the parents out of the question.

I think, there's plenty of research that shows what babies need the most (after the basics of food, shelter, safety, etc) is to feel secure, loved and mildly stimulated. This is not easy to provide in a nursery setting due to the number of children and staff turnover. It is much easier to provide at home (unless the home is abusive) or with a grand parent or any single person looking after the child. No baby benefits from having less time with their (benevolent) caregiver or having less attention. Babies developmentally dont need to socialise. If they do socialising very regularly with a small number of people is great but that is not what happens in most nurseries. At best sharing a room with lots of other kids will not harm them but I think for many babies it is overstimulating and maKes them feel less secure.

A good childminder is worth their weight in gold and I'd say better than the most excellent nursery. We had a fantastic childminder. She had 3 kids of a similar age. She didn't do school runs but she took them out every single day to either the park, stately house and gardens, farms, etc. She closed due to health reasons but even now 6 months later dc Still fondly remembers her and the other kids. It wasn't perfect. He barely napped there because she didn't have a proper set up for napping. He had lots of accidents and often csme home with a split lip. We had to provide food every day and when she was ill he had to stay at home but I do think that a good childminder fulfills what a baby or young toddler needs more than a nursery. After her we tried 2 other childminders but we didn't feel he was safe with them so now he's at nursery (and hating it).

From age 3 I think kids do benefit from nursery because of socialisation , structure, and all the craft and educational activities they do but not before that. Before that nurseries and even childminders are just a place to send kids to because you need to for whatever reason.

Both of my kids were in nursery from age 1 because I had to return to work and I have friends whose babies joined earlier than age 1 because they had to go back to work earlier. So my point isn't whether parents should use nurseries or not because most of us don't have a choice but purely about what would be best for babies if we didn't have to work.

Just think of all the daily interaction, and stimulation, a nurturing, loving caregiver has with their baby: the number of times they caress/cuddle them, hug them, kiss them, talk to them, skin/eye contact whilst feeding and talking to them; as well as playing little games like peek-a-boo, blowing raspberries on their tummy or whatnot. This is how babies bond and attach and feel secure. This interaction/stimulation all contributes to the wiring and development of the brain. There is no way paid caregivers in a nursery setting with a large number of babies in their care can ever replicate that.

But I suppose that's maybe what you mean by nurturing person, like their aunty or whatever.

@oakleaffy whilst I agree with you, as in nursery was not for me at all.

Animals do operate childcare, ducks as PP mentioned, sheep, cattle.

If you look at a field of grazing cattle. Two max stay with all the babies, the rest head off to graze, sleep, eat. The one or two in charge stand guard and alert to danger.

Sheep take turns to watch older ones and will mother a newborn happily and even steal in many cases.

I'm sure there will be more.

You said “animal species”

Birds aren't Mammals. Cuckoos leave others to raise their young.

@MariaVT65

just one more thing. I’m grateful and happy and would much prefer to have my 2 year old in a relaxed comfortable place environment rather than throwing her in to a class room based environment but thats me. They go on fun stimulating days out lax she provides activities that I’d see and do see in my nursery. She has a full designated play room all kitted out and a large garden. So again you don’t know everything and some childminders might be shite but I know mine isn’t

well, actually lots abandon their young. Have you ever observed ducks? They often lose their young and the ducklings happily regroup. Ones local to us, one mother ended up with 19 whilst the other was relaxing…

Hardly a surprise- {The age outcomes}

Babies need their mothers or a nurturing person - not a nursery.

{What other animal species hives off its very young to others?}

@MariaVT65

ill have you know though that my child is in a group of however many children 98% of them are her own age as I am aware that she will send 98% of them off to school at the same time as we are aware that 98% are currently two going to be 3 this year but again you assume you know everything. Some child minders go for babies but are you aware of ratios and allowances to numbers in certain age groups? She also absolutely does provide enough stimulation as she provides the same activities my nursery does. She provides everything that reaches their needs of development and evidences this to get an OUTSTANDING ofsted review. But I can sit an argue this all day long but I won’t waste my time. You’ve got your opinion your last comments were wrong and not evidenced where as I have sent my daughter since she was 10 months old she’s now 29 months old and thriving. She has learned so much and is even now talking about her emotions but you reckon she’s not stimulated?

so I’ll have you know she is within her own age group and she does get stimulated. I wouldn’t write without knowledge. This is all uploaded and evidenced for us to see.

have a wonderful day Maria.

Couldn't agree more, @Luxell934

A local Nanny or good, baby focussed child minder is much safer.

Nurseries are too big to give babies the focussed attention they need.

This is a fascinating read, much more nuanced then the usual political bun fighting over childcare/SAHP.

Yep, especially after 16 weeks of little to no sleep, and this news story giving me nightmares. Had enjoyed being able to let go of the FTM anxiety a bit but this case and this thread have really fuelled some anxiety.

Staff make the nursery. My own observations are that an experienced, strong, room lead sets the tone for the rest of the staff.

In my children’s nursery the baby room just didn’t have that lead and you could tell the staff totally lacked any passion.

But the toddler and preschool room have amazing leads and the staff either don’t gel and leave or settle in with them. The staff in the toddler room are just fantastic. They just ooze enthusiasm. The preschool room lead used to care for who is now her boss (family business) when they were children, which is a great testament.

I visited one nursery where the managers enthusiasm for the kids was totally lacking, she tried to say hello to one, affectionately, but one of the room staff corrected her as she’d got the child’s name wrong.

Thanks to Mumsnet this is a worry I have in my own home, when DH works away and I’m alone with my children. I used to sleep with a carrier next to the bed so I could wear the baby and carry the toddler.

Youve just made me realise that at 5, the older one would be able to follow instructions atleast.

I hope she gets a really heavy sentence. No less than 20 years. I find the whole thing totally horrific. How could anybody in their right mind do this to a baby. She should have been nowhere near children. Never mind a manager in a nursery.

The nursery that our DD went to, they had a few cots on wheels that were dedicated 'in the event of emergency' cots - they would load them up and push them out through the double doors. It was a ground floor purpose built type building too and each room had a door that the kids could access the garden so it wasn't a big concern for us

My child started nursery at 14 months and absolutely loves it. Literally runs towards entrance every morning. We’ve never had tears at drop off or pick up. She lights up seeing the staff. There doesn’t seem to be much/any turn over. There is a huge garden where they go play whenever it’s not miserable out. Lots of cool activities/messy play. Staff seem genuinely fond of her. Biggest selling point for me was that nursery managers DS is in same room as my DC as felt they clearly trust their staff with their own child.

Similarly to others I felt childminder and nanny didn’t offer any accountability to other adults.

A bit of a sweeping statement. Many years ago a friend of mine had her second baby die in his cot. She had done nothing wrong, but felt guilty all the time I knew her that she had not gone up in response to his crying - which we all do. Cot deaths are nothing whatsoever to do with what happened to the 9mth old being smothered, where the caregiver actively harmed the child - it's manslaughter, she did not intend to kill but she was reckless as to her actions.

In theory 3 babies can be briefly carried at once in an emergency (one on each hip, other on front) but in reality that only works if staff aren't too overweight.

I had the ‘luxury’ (as it is now) of being able to stay at home with mine until they started preschool at 3. So I was a bit dubious about Gdcs going to nursery from 9 or 12 months, but they loved it there, and thrived. And from 2 or so, IMO it’s very good for learning to share, take turns, etc. My Gdcs have all loved their nurseries/preschool, with so many different activities (inc. forest school) that are often not easy to achieve at home. The 2 elder moved very happily and seamlessly into reception, and I have no doubt that no. 3 will be the same in September.