To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

So only those who can afford for at least one parent to stop work for 5 years should procreate? Is that the solution?

I'm actually uncomfortable with this whole narrative; nurseries are worse for babies development than staying with their mum.
Look at France, 60% of women work, and the vast majority of babies go to nursery full time at 3.5 months. That's when French women go back to work.
Do you think French kids are worse off than UK kids for this reason?
Doesn't make sense to me.

If you want to keep your baby with you fine, I chose to keep my DD1 for 1 year with me before putting her in nursery, but I don't play into this narrative and I might not do the same for subsequent children.

I’m a single parent too and I understand how hard it can be when life doesn’t turn out as planned. I gave up my job when my youngest was very young (ie I didn’t go back after Maternity Leave). I used all my savings and then claimed some benefits. I gave up my house (owned with a mortgage) and went into rental. Again, that’s harder now, but it’s that (property and property prices) that needs sorting out, along with allowances for the parent(s) to stay at home initially not pushing babies and young children away from their primary caregivers.

Some people would be waiting forever
Some people don’t have the kind of careers that they can just leave for 1-2 years if they want to continue to progress and financially provide for the families

etc etc

I am 100% sure our nursery do a better job of looking after my DD (3yo) than I do! They are experts with 20+ years of experience, multiple qualifications, first aid trained etc. Im a first time mum making it up as I go along !

Im due twins next week and won't be able to offer them as many days in nursery as we've done for my DD as it's just too expensive; I really feel like they're not getting the same opportunities as her!

I actually have though part time only subbing in for a few weeks. We had 8 babies at the time and 3 staff and there was usually one or 2 babies asleep at any time during the morning so 5 or 6 awake. If ratios are adhered to in a small room it's not stressful I don't think. It was (to me) nothing as bad as being SAHM to baby twins trying to cook clean and do school runs and homework with an older child.

@PoppingTomorrow i think it's hard to compare nursery vs childminder and you get good and bad in both category.

I think a good childminder would be worth her weight in gold, but sadly they are few and far between, and you are right that they are often just left to tag along after the older ones.

My younger child had a childminder for a while and it was ok, but nursery has suited us much better.

People talk about a childminder being "in the home environment" but they are missing the point. It's not a home environment. It's just a house. A home environment means being at home with family who love you. Unless you find a fabulous childminder, it's really just being in a house with a childminder and a collection of other kids.

I think it'll come down to what you have locally. Spend some time in the park and you'll see the local childminders and can observe their routines and relationships with the children. Visit nurseries and childminders and form your own opinions.

Good luck.

All our worlds are different. We all makes choices and sacrifices to do what we think it’s best I’m sure. My world is no less real to yours or anyone else’s.

That sounds difficult. Sorry you had to go through that.

Let me take a guess. Well earning husband who can cover all the bills and you live off his wage? You need to get in the real world.

Settling in sessions were much easier - I waited until they were settled and snuck out. My youngest smiled at drop off from day - 1 I honestly think he had watched his brother go in and out so much that he was happy to join him. It was really distressing handing them over during Covid with no settling in sessions. My son went to a setting I never set foot inside for a short while. Hindsight is wonderful but I wish I just had an extra year off when it all kicked off!

How about you wait until you have enough money between you to look after your baby yourself for the first year at least? There are choices! For those that can’t then more shouod be provided to help new parents stay with their child for the first year, not push back into work.

I wanted to continue working also because I love my job and don’t want to spend all my day with a baby/toddler. Feel no guilt for that at all I’m afraid.

Thanks for that.

My choice was:

1. Continue in career job and be able to pay the mortgage and bills, also being the main earner in the house by the time I had kids
2. Don't carry on working, don't pay the bills and lose the house.

Fortunately I was able to work slightly fewer hours and only use professional childcare 3 days a week, one day a week with granny, and still pay the bills. And I was also able to do jobs working from home at some stages so there were fewer hours of childcare to pay for.

And if young professional couples, married and owning a house shouldn't have children, then who should?

Apart from in sub Saharan Africa and parts of Asia, the birth rate is very low.

Yes of course but IMO it’s mum they need first and foremost in the early weeks and months.

Pretty sure my kids need their dad too...

I am, it’s just that I have different views to you. I am entitled to that.
Nursery workers are strangers.
A few settling in sessions doesn’t change that for the baby (it might feel like it changes things for you but essentially they are still a stranger- you can’t possibly know someone even remotely well after a couple of sessions!)
Then nursery workers have a very high turnover. New faces are coming and going all the time. So yes. Strangers.

My eldest DS went to nursery from 6 months. He is about to graduate with a 1st from a RG university and is a lovely confident man with a lovely girlfriend.

I should probably thank the nursery workers who raised him reading some of the posts here.

A shame these nutters are still around trying to justify their own existence as SAHMs by spouting utter BS.

In bad taste too considering this tragic case.

I wouldn't be against it if fathers were expected to step up and take at least half of the leave on a use it or lose it basis so it didn't become yet another thing that women in the workplace would be discriminated for and have to battle against.

Choices that are right for the whole family, of which household income is a very significant aspect

Choices that is right for who? Them or their baby? The two are often very different which is what gets me angry.
The whole county is set up to have both parents working now when the child is still very young. Grandparents often not able to help due to still working themselves in lots of cases.
Its all totally wrong.
A baby just wants and needs it’s mum. Why is that so hard to understand?

No, we don't want to go back to the days when women could not have a career, with fewer women doctors, solicitors etc. But most women do not have jobs like those; they are on check-outs, in retail, cleaners, carers in care homes or nurseries, teaching assistants (that one is quite rewarding), routine office workers etc. In survey after survey, 80% of women would prefer to work part-time or to stay at home with young children, but they cannot afford to. A better arrangement would be for government assistance for parents to allow the parents to decide the childcare they want, not make it so that a nursery is the only option - because that's the one that counts as part of the GDP. Other countries manage to make being at home with young children possible, why not the UK?

COVID aside obviously! That must have been difficult but guess needs must.

Think my two year old will have two or three settling in sessions.

It's all very confusing.

I'm still not how sure nursery workers are strangers yet the babies spend 60 hours a week in their care and are ''raised'' by them too.

It's amazing.

Yep.