To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

Baby rooms are no substitute for a living care giver that can give sole attention I feel sad for babies that are put into a nursery. Until my child can speak they won't be having anyone who isn't me or a close family member that loves him If they can't speak they can't tell you

The point is that nurseries should be safe spaces with trained caring staff.

These two examples demonstrate that that isn't the case. They aren't "accidents" they are wilful neglect from people who should know better and are paid to know better. They are in a position of trust.

The "babies die at home" argument is specious.

I’m not suggesting she should be held less accountable, but that the nursery should be held accountable too.

"There is now overwhelming evidence that daycare causes children to have abnormal cortisol levels, probably increasing the risk of behavioural problems like aggression, fearfulness and hyperactivity." I wonder if there could be a link between behaviour in schools and children going to childcare very early? Of course, I'm not saying that every child going to childcare is going to develop anxiety or behavioral problems, but even if only 1 % are affected by being separated from the parents at an early stage, that's an awful lot of children. I'm not being judgemental here - many couples need 2 wages to keep a roof over their heads - but for those saying that they need to go back to work for the sake of their mental health, perhaps working out methods for staying sane while caring for your babies might mean your child's mental health (as well as your own) might be safeguarded.

My kids are in childcare.

Of course, I was terrified leaving my first child in nursery. It’s a normal feeling and obviously cases like this don’t help.

We are top floor of the setting. We do a chain of the staff going down the stairs where we pass the babies 1 by 1, they go straight into a fire cot and they are wheeled away from the building. We can get 36 babies out in 3 minutes from the alarm going off

Disagree all you like. This wasn’t forgetfulness, or a mistake, it was a positive act which she didn’t have to do which she did which resulted in the death of the baby. Even if I had 20 babies in my care, this would never have happened. The worst that would’ve happened is they would’ve had to stay crying in a cot for a few minutes longer than I would’ve liked while I saw to another baby. But nothing on this earth would’ve made me do what she did.

Or Option 3, which the vast majority of parents take, find a childcare solution which best suits the temperament of the child you have and work around that. Many children love nursery, the company of other children and the range of activities that a household- particularly a household with one income- is not going to be able to give them. There are bad nurseries just like there are bad schools, but we don't assume that ALL children are better off being home educated because SOME children don't get on well at school.

So have you saved enough money for them to get on the property ladder in possibly the worst housing market yet? Have you saved for their uni fees if they need them so they’re not in tens of thousands of debt before working? Or for money to start their own ventures? Can you help them travel, marry and save for their futures? Or are the “needs” of your children only present during ages 1-4?

Family, friends, kids at the park and at playgroups...

I'm not making an absolute statement that in every case it's better for a child to be at home. There are many circumstances where nursery is necessary and helpful.
Just simply that the need for babies to "socialise" as a justification for nursery is very often exaggerrated. Babies don't NEED to socialise with dozens of complete strangers every day.

None taken!

Of course- I was commenting on something else upthread but messed it up. No offence intended.

No it isn’t.

You can’t moonlight in many professions, teachers, lawyers, accountants.

What Roughley did was not an accident.

A little girl died when she choked on her lunch at nursery. She was 9 months old. Just awful.

I commented on this case in another thread. The whole thing is horrifying. I’ve been aware of the case for some time as I live locally and the putting my son in nursery at 11 months was terrifying.

I still believe it was the right thing to do. To have given up work (and by implication the career I have spent 15 years cultivating) would have put us in significant financial pressure. It’s hobsons choice.

i can’t understand why everyone isn’t focused on what we can do to increase quality in childcare provision. Surely, this would allow for more choice, decrease inequality for women, assist child development and (most importantly) eradicate cases such as this.

Finally, some of these comments are in incredibly bad taste. Imagine being Genevieve’s mum and reading through this thread?

This woman is not a scapegoat. She's a murderer, even if the official charge was manslaughter. What she did was evil. The child suffocated and screamed for help for 90 minutes and was ignored. She tightly strapped a 9 month old face down so she couldn't move an inch. Clearly she already had a grudge against this innocent child. The nursery managers should be prosecuted for unsafe practices but that is a separate issue. It's disgraceful to try to make excuses for this vile excuse for a human.

This has really affected me today, I wish I hadn't read it. Fucking horrific, that poor, gorgeous little girl and her poor parents, I don't know how they're functioning to be honest.

I'm just about to go and pick my little one up from nursery and will hug her even tighter.

And no, I don't think nursery is the best place for under 2's unfortunately, but I'm not comfortable with a childminder or nanny either and I have to work.

All you can do is research and visit before you pick one and keep an eye on your child when you go to collect/ drop them off and hope for the best- which is bloody horrible.

My daughter is an Early Years Educator and the children and babies thrive under her care, and the care provided by her colleagues. They wean and potty train, take instructions from parents regarding the length of nap times (and adhere to them), and feeding preferences. There is CCTV in the rooms, and parents are given daily (sometimes hourly) progress updates. Hers is a vocation. She absolutely adores her job, and the children all love her.

What if they don't have an "immediate family circle" ? Just them and an isolated mother?

Utterly heartbreaking

That’s fewer than die at home though.

John Meehan, Genevieve’s father, said: “We will never forgive the callousness of Kate Roughley’s actions. She was entrusted with the care of our daughter, yet she put her own convenience and selfish interests above Genevieve’s life.
“She treated our daughter with cruelty and contempt. Knowing what she had done she could have taken responsibility and saved our family from enduring the horror of this trial.
“However, such a basic act of decency was beyond her. Instead she has lied and lied and lied throughout, and sought to deflect attention to anyone but herself.
“She has shown no remorse for Genevieve’s death. Her expressions of sorrow during the trial were as insincere as they were insulting.”

But that didn’t make her put that baby swaddled and face down. I completely agree the nursery need repercussions but they’re not to blame for her cruelty, their lack of safeguarding and procedures just gave her an opportunity.