To think nurseries are not safe for young babies

Some are.

Many, many are not.

And this is no fault of the staff btw, I'm not having a go at them. I don't doubt most are doing their absolute best in difficult circumstances.

Do you know what it’s called please

Horrific documentary on bbc1 now about it

Ofsted used to do unannounced inspections but that was scrapped in 2015. Now with a pre arranged inspection you get nurseries calling in members of staff who are off sick and laying on fake activities where they're normally just left in Thier chairs, to dupe the inspector

Horrific documentary on bbc1 now about it

Ofsted used to do unannounced inspections but that was scrapped in 2015. Now with a pre arranged inspection you get nurseries calling in members of staff who are off sick and laying on fake activities where they're normally just left in Thier chairs, to dupe the inspector

I concur! Having experience as a nursery assistant, I vowed never to send my child to one. The environment can be negative and neglectful, especially among the staff. While it is true that accidents can happen at home, they are usually unintentional. When someone else is looking after your child, the level of care may not be the same as that of a parent. Nursery assistants often face pressure and may lack genuine enthusiasm, as they are there out of necessity rather than choice.

I concur! Having experience as a nursery assistant, I vowed never to send my child to one. The environment can be negative and neglectful, especially among the staff. While it is true that accidents can happen at home, they are usually unintentional. When someone else is looking after your child, the level of care may not be the same as that of a parent. Nursery assistants often face pressure and may lack genuine enthusiasm, as they are there out of necessity rather than choice.

You seem to be missing an extremely important point here...the majority of children who go to nursery DO have loving and caring parents AS WELL AS a nursery key worker who they will also be attached to for the hours they attend nursery. Do you honestly believe that my children and thousands of other children who have attended nursery before age 2 do not have "healthy wired up brains" to use your words? It's so strange given my eldest is top of his class, lots of friends, plays piano, sports, excels in maths, still loves a cuddle...yet according to you he should have an unhealthy brain given he attended nursery 3 days a week from age 6 months? You are absolutely kidding yourself! Maybe I was just lucky though eh? Or maybe he will be a disaffected adult eh? Ha! The kids are harmed by childcare is a myth used to keep women in domestic servitude... And it is very very effective because it plays on women's biggest fears. Funny how you don't see many male SAHP isn't it!

“Also why is it you say nursery workers are “trained professionals" is a myth?

It’s a myth because there seems to be a substantial number of people who seem to believe that institutional care (sorry, that’s what it is) is better than home care with a loving, nurturing parent because, apparently, nurseries are populated by highly “trained professionals” who are doing things with their child that they couldn’t possibly do at home; or that a loud, overstimulating environment with loads of strangers milling about is better for cognitive, social and emotional development than a slower, calmer home environment with 1 or 2 loving, nurturing primary caregivers and interaction with a small network of family and friends.

“Many are trained and have excellent experience..at good nurseries. I would not send my child to a nursery where there was no evidence of training. Are all the teachers/assistants at schools trained would be an interesting one as last time I checked you only needed a year and some courses you train on the job (I am not saying that is right for the record).”

Who gives a fig about training? You need someone who loves the child to care for the child. An illiterate mother is far superior to a stranger with a billion trillion years of training and education. Why? Because she loves her child, and that will be evident in the way she interacts with, and responds to her child; and that’s what’s necessary for the healthy wiring of the brain that occurs primarily in the first three years of life.

It's not sinister at all. It's been identified that children of unemployed parents who have not attended nursery or preschool are starting school with significantly less life experience than children who have attended preschool or have more affluent parents. Providing those parents with access to funded childcare means that the child is getting access to experiences they are likely not to have had at home.

In the example above of an illiterate parent, at the very least they will have the experience of someone sitting with them to read a story.

How is providing childcare to someone not in work "encouraging them to continue" work? You can't continue something you're not doing. As far as I'm aware, the govt has never argued that funded hours for 2 yos for parents in receipt of benefits has ever been for any other purpose than to ensure the child has more chance of starting school on a more equal footing to children of parents who are not on benefits.

I didn't say they are in the workforce. I said it's to encourage them to continue to work. That's why free or cheaper childcare exists as far as I know.

I really hope that the reason you gave isn't why poor families are offered more childcare. Support from services such as Health Visitors and Social Care, sure. But encouraging uneducated/poor parents to outsource some of their childcare to someone who must be better at it because they're more educated (although that isn't always true) is pretty sinister.

They are not in the workforce. And attending childcare is not "being raised" by anyone other than the parents, just like school aged kids are still being raised at home, by their parents, they are just also attending another place of education. No-one is dropping their 18 mth child off at boarding school and not seeing them until the summer holidays.

This link is from the states but there are other more international studies you can find.

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/opre/report/childrens-learning-and-development-benefits-high-quality-early-care-and-education

there is a reason why unemployed parents get more "free" childcare at a younger age; because outcomes have been demonstrated to be better with trained childcarers involved who can provide a broader range of opportunities and support the parents.

I don't think that's why they're entitled to more free childcare at all. It's because they have more trouble affording childcare than someone who's better paid, to encourage parents to stay in the workforce. Otherwise you're basically saying that children from poorer families are better off raised by the state than their uneducated parents, and that's pretty sinister.

Where is this data showing that children from poor families do better in institutional childcare settings than with their families?

“Also why is it you say nursery workers are “trained professionals" is a myth?

It’s a myth because there seems to be a substantial number of people who seem to believe that institutional care (sorry, that’s what it is) is better than home care with a loving, nurturing parent because, apparently, nurseries are populated by highly “trained professionals” who are doing things with their child that they couldn’t possibly do at home; or that a loud, overstimulating environment with loads of strangers milling about is better for cognitive, social and emotional development than a slower, calmer home environment with 1 or 2 loving, nurturing primary caregivers and interaction with a small network of family and friends.

“Many are trained and have excellent experience..at good nurseries. I would not send my child to a nursery where there was no evidence of training. Are all the teachers/assistants at schools trained would be an interesting one as last time I checked you only needed a year and some courses you train on the job (I am not saying that is right for the record).”

Who gives a fig about training? You need someone who loves the child to care for the child. An illiterate mother is far superior to a stranger with a billion trillion years of training and education. Why? Because she loves her child, and that will be evident in the way she interacts with, and responds to her child; and that’s what’s necessary for the healthy wiring of the brain that occurs primarily in the first three years of life.

That's very dependent on the situation. A child at home with an illiterate mother, unless there's another caregiver who can read and write on hand, is missing out on a lot of important developmental opportunities, considering she can't even read them a story. I'm assuming that you think leaving the house is not important, as there's a lot of activities you can't access without being literate and you certainly wouldn't be able to pass a theory test to drive a car, so you'd be limited to public transport which is very poor in many areas. That's before we get onto all the important safety information that she's going to have trouble accessing. Some might come through love or common sense, but safe sleep, choking hazards like whole grapes, etc., less so.

An illiterate mother is likely to be being supported quite heavily by HV or social services, and there is a reason why unemployed parents get more "free" childcare at a younger age; because outcomes have been demonstrated to be better with trained childcarers involved who can provide a broader range of opportunities and support the parents.

“Also why is it you say nursery workers are “trained professionals" is a myth?

It’s a myth because there seems to be a substantial number of people who seem to believe that institutional care (sorry, that’s what it is) is better than home care with a loving, nurturing parent because, apparently, nurseries are populated by highly “trained professionals” who are doing things with their child that they couldn’t possibly do at home; or that a loud, overstimulating environment with loads of strangers milling about is better for cognitive, social and emotional development than a slower, calmer home environment with 1 or 2 loving, nurturing primary caregivers and interaction with a small network of family and friends.

“Many are trained and have excellent experience..at good nurseries. I would not send my child to a nursery where there was no evidence of training. Are all the teachers/assistants at schools trained would be an interesting one as last time I checked you only needed a year and some courses you train on the job (I am not saying that is right for the record).”

Who gives a fig about training? You need someone who loves the child to care for the child. An illiterate mother is far superior to a stranger with a billion trillion years of training and education. Why? Because she loves her child, and that will be evident in the way she interacts with, and responds to her child; and that’s what’s necessary for the healthy wiring of the brain that occurs primarily in the first three years of life.

Who said that those who use nurseries are "bad parents"?

Like with all things when it comes to parenthood, as long as you are a genuinely loving parent who wants the best for their child I don't see anything wrong with either approach. If a child has a SAHP who enjoys being at home with them and who is invested in their wellbeing then that is of course fantastic. But just like there are some poor quality nurseries, you also have some parents who, unfortunately, do not enjoy caring for their child at home and will park them in their highchair in front of the TV all day. In a case such as this it would probably be better if the parent and child had the support of a good quality nursery! There are some poor quality nurseries out there and as I have previously stated, we need stronger government intervention to improve on the quality of childcare. However, to call someone a bad parent for working outside the home and for using nurseries is quite frankly just cruel. It becomes like the breastfeeding vs formula debate, cruel and toxic. I am currently at home with my one year old because I have decided to take a career break to be at home. Do I judge mothers for not doing the same as me? NO!! Motherhood is tough and I know that for all of the other genuinely loving parents out there they are simply trying to do what is best.